There was one thing about her questioning I found profoundly troubling.

Post #434,755 by mmoffitt 6/25/20 8:29:36 AM 6/25/20 8:29:36 AM Reply	There was one thing about her questioning I found profoundly troubling. She actually used the word "inferred" where she should have said "implied." Perhaps it is a consequence of being raised by an English teacher but with that one utterance she lost my support completely. Haven't we had enough Presidents who have failed to master their native tongues? She was a prosecutor for Christ's sake. She, better than most, should understand that words matter. Everything else aside, her inability to use the correct English language words during an important questioning of a witness (again! she was a prosecutor ffs!) left me absolutely stone cold. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #434,758 by drook 6/25/20 9:00:20 AM 6/25/20 9:00:20 AM Reply	My God! That's the most disturbing thing I've ever heard! -- Drew
Post #434,763 by Another Scott 6/25/20 10:16:21 AM 6/25/20 10:16:21 AM Reply	I KNOW!!1
Post #434,768 by mmoffitt 6/25/20 11:28:27 AM 6/25/20 11:28:27 AM Reply	If we've learned nothing from Covid, we should have learned that incompetence kills. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #434,769 by drook 6/25/20 11:31:09 AM 6/25/20 11:31:09 AM Reply	Your standard for incompetent is ... not useful? Yeah, not useful. -- Drew
Post #434,771 by mmoffitt 6/25/20 11:36:20 AM 6/25/20 11:36:20 AM Reply	Are you really that thick? Or are you just playing. Her career was predicated on her having mastered the English language. She's not done it to date. It's not a stretch to say her failure to do so may have something to do with all the controversy surrounding her record as prosecutor. Want a political example? "We will bury you". Remember who said that? If you say "Krushchev" guess again. He didn't say that. Why do you think he did? Because the idiot translator mistranslated. Words matter. Particularly in a court of law or in government. Failing to master even your primary language should be disqualifying. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #434,779 by drook 6/25/20 12:32:17 PM 6/25/20 12:32:17 PM Reply	Yes, words matter ... but those words are the ones you're hung up on? -- Drew
Post #434,794 by mmoffitt 6/25/20 2:29:00 PM 6/25/20 2:29:00 PM Reply	As I said in the preamble, my father was an English teacher. Using "infer" instead of "imply" was a trigger for him. And, sadly or not, that's a trigger I inherited. It rings in my ears as loudly as, "John and me are going to the store." I'd say "John and me are going to the store" is far less wrong than using "inferred" in the context she did here. It's horrific in that she should know better. Her use of that word is stunningly wrong and spoiled an otherwise excellent performance in questioning the AG nominee. She was running through her vocabulary looking for a synonym to "suggested" and she inadvertently demonstrated that her vocabulary isn't as large as one might suspect and the meaning of some of the words in that vocabulary are not fully understood. That's less than inspiring. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #434,795 by drook 6/25/20 2:42:09 PM 6/25/20 2:42:09 PM Reply	That's a great endorsement The worst thing that you can say about her is that one time, during a high-pressure televised event, she used the wrong 5-letter word starting with "i" that are synonyms. -- Drew
Post #434,799 by malraux 6/25/20 3:15:32 PM 6/25/20 3:15:32 PM Reply	You're an odd duck, Mike. The stuff you get wound up about. And incorrectly, as Drew points out. Merriam-Webster disagrees with your argument here. And also as Drew says, if that's the worst thing you can say about her... Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #434,804 by Ashton 6/25/20 4:42:20 PM 6/25/20 4:42:20 PM Reply	Merriam-Webster recently admitted that: Yes, they Do make MIstreaks (too) (Too lazy to search just now for the money-quote, but I will) THIS is one such: Synonyms for imply allude, hint, indicate, infer, insinuate, intimate, suggest It is bogus once-and twice-removed. Just as Mike avers. As do I. (Maybe could get a gang to pile-on ..hmm). A) It is not a 'synonym' B) It is an 'antonym' C) for alleged-Lexicographer(s) to make such a confounding Error--is pretty-much inexcusable. But they're Human (oddly). Note too that: Infer is a passive-voice (which has implications..) Imply is an active-voice (which has implications..) The twain(?) do not mix ..if you're playing in amateur-Lexicographer street-races. Rest case.
Post #434,805 by drook 6/25/20 4:47:53 PM 6/25/20 4:47:53 PM Reply	Infer can be used active No, they aren't 1-for-1 replacements for the same idea. In use: He implied that all cops are racist. I inferred that he doesn't like cops. So you can make an inference based on an implication. But they really are so close phonetically, and so related logically, that mis-using one for the other in an off-the-cuff discussion is hardly proof of any glaring deficiency. -- Drew
Post #434,809 by Ashton 6/25/20 5:03:15 PM 6/25/20 5:12:48 PM Reply	Sorry, but.. [edited] Both sentences are themselves, "reports", in 'passive voice' re. 'events' ... that happened-already. Unless I'm missing something sub-tul-er. Still and all: there IS an Uncertainty Principle operative within Language Itself (as seems to mock/ blend-in? pursang-Physics/Math-theyselves (!?) Prolly Bertie could map this out in twenty? forty? pages, but I can't do-Mr. Kant-levels ..unless paid-in-advance. :^> But I'll buy your last ..unless someone opens a Switchblade, threatening Death or dith-shevelment PS: The 'Predicate ..'subjunctive-Case' in Engrish: opens up a lot of--sometimes-vital--'implications' when we try to write rilly-Exact statements {sigh} LANGUAGE is all we Have; sometimes it does create! or save-from! hideous Violence from all those Reptile-brainz-aflutter: Out There. Ergo: its POWER is giga-Tonnes beyond mere planet-destroying Bomb-things (as all derive from the Reptile-brainz-part). Edited by Ashton June 25, 2020, 05:12:48 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #434,815 by drook 6/25/20 8:32:00 PM 6/25/20 8:32:00 PM Reply	One of us doesn't know what "passive voice" means And I'm afraid it's you. :-P Active: He implied all cops are racist. Passive: The idea that all cops are racist was implied. Passive voice means that an action happened / happens to someone, rather than someone did the thing. That it's past-tense isn't relevant. Passive voice is frequently used to exonerate the guilty. Practical example: John Smith was involved in an officer-involved shooting. vs. A police officer shot and killed John Smith. (Example shamelessly stolen, and unconscionably condensed, from here. Go read it.) -- Drew
Post #434,818 by Ashton 6/25/20 11:01:26 PM 6/25/20 11:09:10 PM Reply	Mc Sweeneys.. unimaginable a few decades past.. Seemingly thay have applied the ~early-'90s techniques I first saw in a Brit-program headed by a (once) Wunderkind Host ... teaching at edge of that techno; "Knowledge": was part of the show-title. 'Twas there that I saw physics, math symbols automated (..thinking) ..Wow--had we Had That, why.. ... In that wow-demo the numerical/unit-sizes/colors! of variable-symbols altered on both sides of the essential [=] separator, as you inserted, what-Ifs? Algebra, Calculus, some partial-Differentials ..other nested-dependent-variables ... Grew or shrunk ..like here. McS takes the optics to Language (possibly inspired by? those 40-yo first examples I saw). Anyway I punt on atempting a better definition-set than the hasty stab; obviously: the teaching of (arcane-even) Language rules, habits and corrections via careful Academese-as-spoken: is superseded. (Worst case: many might well forget how-to? extemporaneously): craft some instructive-tale so as to kindle [only a small flicker of initial Class-interest] into ---> a roaring, Let's hear Moar! 40 :oTpy Edited by Ashton June 25, 2020, 11:05:40 PM EDT Edited by Ashton June 25, 2020, 11:09:10 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #434,820 by drook 6/25/20 11:40:40 PM 6/25/20 11:40:40 PM Reply	I think you're saying ... you liked it? :-) My favorite line: ... the past exonerative tense, so named because culpability is impossible when actions no longer exist. Though taking just an excerpt impels me to mis-quote the movie Mozart: There are just as many words, Majesty, as are required. Neither more nor less. -- Drew
Post #434,823 by Ashton 6/26/20 12:48:04 AM 6/26/20 12:48:04 AM Reply	That line is indeed, Boffo :-0 And yess, these folk appear to be exemplars about applying the effective science Demo(s) sanely to the more-difficult on n-levels: daily Ranguage events. And clearly, even more progress could find many (who thought.. "eh? it's too cerebral!) to get woke-up and smellin' the (Rose-coloured) phrases much more-better. All as promps wondering just how many other sites might also be toiling? in the fields of Disinformation -vs- de-Fanging that scourge on the asshole of humanity. Concur that they are striving for some new Clarity? (without any snark like: recall' Captain Clarity?') wayback when dinosaurs roamed ..just-beyond the perimeter of IWE. Thanks for the Intro! it's now in my 'https' listicle, stored just off-screen-right: a one-line-piece of TextEdit protruding as, 'SAVE SAVE". [Beats bookkeeping, and last I heard, that's the only word with two-'k's] :-þ
Post #434,812 by malraux 6/25/20 6:54:16 PM 6/25/20 6:57:04 PM Reply	Addressed here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infer#usage-1 tl;dr: infer to mean 'indicate' is fine, but it has been tarred with the same feathers as 'suggest/hint'. Even that is a relatively recent development compared to how long both meanings have been in use. Sir Thomas More is the first writer known to have used both infer and imply in their approved senses in 1528 (with infer meaning "to deduce from facts" and imply meaning "to hint at"). He is also the first to have used infer in a sense close in meaning to imply (1533). Both of these uses of infer coexisted without comment until some time around the end of World War I. Since then, the "indicate" and "hint or suggest" meanings of infer have been frequently condemned as an undesirable blurring of a useful distinction. The actual blurring has been done by the commentators. The "indicate" sense of infer, descended from More's use of 1533, does not occur with a personal subject. When objections arose, they were to a use with a personal subject (which is now considered a use of the "suggest, hint" sense of infer). Since dictionaries did not recognize this use specifically, the objectors assumed that the "indicate" sense was the one they found illogical, even though it had been in respectable use for four centuries. The actual usage condemned was a spoken one never used in logical discourse. At present the condemned "suggest, hint" sense is found in print chiefly in letters to the editor and other informal prose, not in serious intellectual writing. The controversy over the "suggest, hint" sense has apparently reduced the frequency with which the "indicate" sense of infer is used. Also, if it was good enough for Shakespeare: "this doth infer the zeal I had to see him" Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson. Edited by malraux June 25, 2020, 06:57:04 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #434,814 by Ashton 6/25/20 8:17:21 PM 6/25/20 8:17:21 PM Reply	Well Done! (I'll nearly-always bow to successfully pellucid argumentation :-) [Drat.. I'd thought it was 1527, when More wasn't yet {fatally..} a thorn-in-side re. allegiance to Der KInk] --new research says I was off 9 months and 4 days; mea culpa.. ;^> Must correct Otrona /CPM floppy, by June 31.
Post #434,766 by rcareaga 6/25/20 10:59:16 AM 6/25/20 10:59:16 AM Reply	Am I to imply from your comment that you’ll sit this one out if she’s on the ticket? cordially,
Post #434,767 by mmoffitt 6/25/20 11:27:53 AM 6/25/20 11:27:53 AM Reply	Not at all. Notwithstanding her failure to master the English language, I'd still prefer her over the Senator from MBNA. And, obviously, either to Trump. Reasonable minds may differ on the importance of proper language use, but by damn, I'm really hoping to live long enough to see someone with at least a second-grader's mastery of the English language occupy the White House. When they were in grammar school, I would have sharply corrected either of my daughters for the blunder Kamala committed (mind, neither was likely to make this halting error since around the second grade). I'd hope that anyone running to be the leader of the free world, let alone someone who'd clearly interrogated countless witnesses, would have at least a second grader's command of the English language. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #434,770 by drook 6/25/20 11:31:58 AM 6/25/20 11:31:58 AM Reply	Whoosh -- Drew
Post #434,783 by pwhysall 6/25/20 1:08:29 PM 6/25/20 1:08:29 PM Reply	Re: Not at all. Your own use of English is far from fault-free, so I would counsel that whilst within the confines of the glass house, you'd be wise to put the stones down.
Post #434,791 by mmoffitt 6/25/20 2:14:34 PM 6/25/20 2:14:34 PM Reply	Am I a prosecutor or running for high office? No. AND for all my mistyping and occasional grammatical errors, I have NEVER confused "imply" and "infer". That is jarring. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #434,796 by drook 6/25/20 2:43:03 PM 6/25/20 2:43:03 PM Reply	Ahem Look up a bit and see if you noticed. -- Drew
Post #434,797 by mmoffitt 6/25/20 2:57:11 PM 6/25/20 2:57:11 PM Reply	I took that as a joke. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #434,811 by rcareaga 6/25/20 6:11:26 PM 6/25/20 6:11:26 PM Reply	Correctly.
Post #434,802 by pwhysall 6/25/20 3:55:56 PM 6/25/20 3:55:56 PM Reply	It's not. It's a slip of the tongue. This is a very small, shitty hill upon which to die.
Post #434,827 by mmoffitt 6/26/20 12:00:01 PM 6/26/20 12:00:01 PM Reply	I'm not trying to convince anyone. I've already conceded it won't have any impact on how I vote. It's just jarring and more than a little disappointing. Worse, I haven't even seen it pointed out by anyone. Language dies in darkness. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #434,828 by malraux 6/26/20 12:06:48 PM 6/26/20 12:06:48 PM Reply	The word has been used that way for 400 years Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #434,835 by Ashton 6/26/20 5:27:46 PM 6/26/20 5:27:46 PM Reply	As has a certain song, "I Wish I Was in Dixie, Hurrah! Hurrah!", er ;^> ..It ain't just La Donna ẻt Mobile ..when whole tribes re-wash their brainz with any /old new Slogan which goes-all-viral. [or a new-Autocrat, lives out-out a personal C-grade soap-opera, via bull-horn]. Cuth: don't leave Lock-down without it [!] ..as my Mater might have opined.
Post #434,841 by a6l6e6x 6/26/20 10:44:39 PM 6/26/20 10:44:39 PM Reply	So, you did not sense that she had second thoughts after she said it? Did you see the video with sound or just read her words? Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #434,808 by Another Scott 6/25/20 4:52:02 PM 6/25/20 4:52:02 PM Reply	You're trolling us, aren't you? Well done.
Post #434,810 by Ashton 6/25/20 5:15:57 PM 6/25/20 5:15:57 PM Reply	I see what you did there.
Post #434,778 by pwhysall 6/25/20 12:25:16 PM 6/25/20 12:25:16 PM Reply	Oh, ffs. Really? That's the bone of contention? A misplaced word?
Post #434,786 by boxley 6/25/20 1:14:58 PM 6/25/20 1:14:58 PM Reply	politically prosecuting unwinnable cases to get elected is a little worse "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #434,852 by Ashton 6/27/20 2:58:59 PM 6/27/20 2:58:59 PM Reply	..now that was Cute truthiness :-) ..try to Go-->there ... more often(?)
Post #434,803 by Ashton 6/25/20 4:21:07 PM 6/25/20 4:21:07 PM Reply	(Always a pleasure) to acknowledge a cohort ..in One's Outlier-Club, oft despised by masses :-) (That Stuart Chase pubished his magnum-Opus in the year of my birth), thence the accident of some {forgotten-event} led me to, The Tyranny of Words--I count as seminal Event in my matriculation into whatever sentience ever, finally sunk-in. {That he had written this epistle in-service-to a young relative is, I surmise} a clue re his care in Using those 'Words' artfully) --while progressively blending-in new nuance, meant to get the girl cogitating on the already imparted material. Easier said than done, that.) aka I share your dudgeon over what only seems mere nit-pickery if taken en passant, as in quip-ifying. To wander about in the daily Maya--unclear about the importance of Implication-made -vs- Inference-taken, is a base canard [and if that phrase is unfamiliar to some: it means ~a Lying tale]--something everyone would recognize today as, indistinguishable from any DJT utterance--Ever]. Even his 'Base' is a Base-base canard, I wot. (Should we next...find selves on local-Barricades? I shall send along the Phlogiston recipe forthwith; never leave home without it) ..when tilting at such Windmills as pwn the framing to every-idiot-assembled, someplace. Akin but Different, look-up Thermite sometime, eh? --Still seeking a superlative beyond merely, Ludicrous (Times :-)

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