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New monumental follies?
I have mixed, though only slightly mixed, feelings about the pulling down of monuments to figures we now deplore. I confess that Edward Colston had not appeared on my cultural radar until shortly after he went for a dip in Bristol Harbour. I gather that the monument raised to him in 1895 celebrated his philanthropic works rather than his participation in the sale of Africans (“It is uncertain how much of his wealth stemmed from the slave trade,” says his Wikipedia entry), but it is understandable that his CV has subsequently raised hackles.

A couple of decades ago, I supervised the distribution to the workforce of a company “yearbook” published in 1915 by the San Francisco office of FCT&D as part of the citywide celebration of that year’s Panama-Pacific Exposition. Problem was, among the many amusing articles contributed by that year’s staff, there was one that spoke condescendingly—I am being charitable here—about “chinks,” accompanied by a caricature that would not have passed muster in most newspapers published stateside much after the end of WW II.

So I was under orders to make sure that about 750 copies of the commemorative reprint were distributed to the staff here in 1999, and it was going to bear my shop’s imprimatur. Bummer. What I wound up doing was printing an insert (closely mimicking, I’m pleased to say, the typography of the original product) acknowledging the offensive material, vigorously repudiating it on behalf of my clueless managers, but including this cautionary paragraph:
It perhaps remains to be observed that men and women in all societies and in all epochs are to varying extents unavoidably the captives, for good and for ill, of the cultures in which they live. Conventional wisdom is a highly perishable commodity. We may be thankful not to share the reflexive xenophobia of some of our forebears, and comfortable with such tolerance as our own milieu has learned since their time, but we do ourselves no favors merely to indulge a facile condescension toward the attitudes of the past. Better, perhaps, for each of us to scrutinize some of our own reflexive beliefs, and consider that among them at least a few, however deeply held, however self-evident these seem to us today, must inevitably strike posterity as outlandish or worse. A commitment to critical thinking, tempered with a certain generosity of spirit, could be the more appropriate way for us to pass along our own heritage for the next millennium.
As to monuments to Confederate officers, I’ll note that statues of Third Reich military leaders are rather thin on the ground in Germany, which would not be the case had they prevailed during the late unpleasantness. I’ve read—haven’t looked into this—that many of the Confederate statues later erected had “generic” bodies upon which the desired hero’s head might be affixed, and I greet with great cheer the notion that these figures could be left in place with dinosaur heads swapped in for those of the traitors.

Finally, I’m given to understand that there has been some grumbling in Auld Blighty regarding Winston Churchill’s memorialization in bronze. I acknowledge that he was an ambiguous and even, in certain significant respects, an appalling character, but whatever one may think of the old and incorrigible imperialist, his “antifa” credentials require no burnishing.

cordially,
New Churchill
Easily one of the most complex characters in the UK's pantheon. Obviously an utterly despicable shit for a decent chunk of his life, as shown by his actions around the globe and at home. But then, he was demonstrably the leader we needed to keep Hitler on that side {points} of the English Channel. Didn't matter that he was drunk for most of it.

And then he lost the 1945 General Election in grand style, but came back in 1951 and did... piss all.

Overall, if you've got "I (helped to) beat Hitler" on your CV, it's only an act of truly diabolical enormity that is going to take the shine off that.
New keeping Hitler across the Channel
Do you know Peter Fleming’s book Operation Sea Lion? I think I have a spare copy kicking around.

cordially,
New Re: "only an act of truly diabolical enormity that is going to take the shine off that"
When it comes to Churchill that's my view.

If it wasn't for him and his leadership, we would now be communicating in Deutsch.
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New Churchill was more than a little problematic in dealing with India.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/7991820/Winston-Churchill-blamed-for-1m-deaths-in-India-famine.html

According to a new book on the famine, Sir Winston ignored pleas for emergency food aid for millions in Bengal left to starve as their rice paddies were turned over to jute for sandbag production and supplies of rice from Burma stopped after Japanese occupation.

Between one and three million died of hunger in 1943.

The wartime leader said Britain could not spare the ships to transport emergency supplies as the streets of Calcutta filled with emaciated villagers from the surrounding countryside, but author Madhusree Mukerjee has unearthed new documents which challenge his claim.

In her book, Churchill's Secret War, she cites ministry records and personal papers which reveal ships carrying cereals from Australia were bypassed India on their way to the Mediterranean where supplies were already abundant.

"It wasn't a question of Churchill being inept: sending relief to Bengal was raised repeatedly and he and his close associates thwarted every effort," the author said.


Imperial Britain looted India, and Churchill had a big role in the latter-day parts of that looting.

He was rather bloodthirsty in prosecuting the war as well, but many leaders were...

On the Confederate statues - no traitors should be honored that way. They spit in the face and kneel on the neck of millions in service of white supremacy.

The statues of the old kings and PMs and robber barons of the racist old imperial days should probably be in museums rather than out in revered spaces in public as well.

Cheers,
Scott.
New He probably also deliberately killed a bunch of Americans.
Churchill was First Lord of the Admiralty when all Americans with tickets across the Atlantic were transferred to the Lusitania.

Simultaneously, due to requests by the British government, a full page warning by the Germans featuring a skull and crossbones was held up from being published until the day the Lusitania sailed.

According to the captain, telegrams arrived ordering him to turn the ship to pass close by the known position of a German Uboat.

All telegraph relay stations have two message numbers missing on that day, except one that deleted the text but recorded they were sent to the Lusitania.

This event caused the US to enter the war on the side of Britain.

The Lusitania was a disguised armed cruiser, owned by the British Navy. It was financed by the Navy and was never owned by the steamship line. It was loaded with war materials, and would have survived the torpedo, or at least sunk much more slowly had some not exploded. This has all been confirmed by examination of the wreck, which the British tried for many years to destroy with depth charges, but failed.

The captain was to be tried and convicted of gross negligence, but was acquitted by the judge, who was then disbarred by the British government as punishment.

None of this is conjecture or conspiracy theory, and has been pretty much admitted by the British crown, after the whole thing was published in the next to last issue of Life magazine.

The theory that Churchill knew of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but did not tell Roosevelt is much less likely, but impossible to prove or disprove. The US Navy had provided the British with the method of decoding messages in the JN25 code, but all records of British decoding efforts previous to the Pearl Harbor attack were destroyed.

Churchill was also very anti-Semitic, deliberately doing nothing to help Jews leave Europe. Roosevelt was also very anti-Semitic, having promoted anti-Jewish legislation in the United States, so between the two, many lives were lost.
New My mater was a fan of his n-Vol books [version-of!] WW-II
'Course ..virtually *No author will ever preface his recounting of anything with, ~~
I Am a Scoundrel through-and-through: take this episttle with satisfiction of my Sterling imagination
(As a PS he might add..) BTW my Leadership is why t'other side of the Atlantic still speaks English
* Twain exception--a few others--within a posthumous opus IIRC re The Whole Damned Human Race: does not spare-self in the reckoning.

It ain't just that "History is written by the Winners"; it's that uncensored Truthiness is well beyond the ethics of the vast majority of not-yet-incarcerated bipeds.
(The Puritans, Slavers didn't invent lying, merely worshipped it).
New dont forget he was the first to gas the kurds as well
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New You might be surprised that I favor their removal.
As a tot travelling around the South from my home (as of the age of four) in Southern California, I marveled at all those Confederate statues. In Newton, NC, three blocks from the first house my wife and I bought stood one and I can't say I ever gave it much thought. If I, as the great-great-great grandson of a Confederate veteran who served in the war's most bloodied NC 26th Regiment, survived Pickett's Charge and was surrendered by Lee at Appomattox knows those statues should never have been erected then it should be clear to everyone that it is past time for them to go.
(Aside: my ancestor had done all that before he met his wife. So, what do you suppose the odds are that I ever was born?)

I've never had any sympathy for the generals, politicians nor the monied slaver class for whom the Confederacy fought. I've completely come 'round on my views of the Confederacy and applaud loudly NASCAR's (of all people) decision to ban the battle flag from their grounds.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New most of those statues were placed after firm political control returned to the white aristocracy
they were mostly put up in the late 1890-1910 as an in your face reminder of who was back in charge.
They should be relocated to the local confederate cemeteries.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Quite agree {Wow!} ;^>
New I've always found it very weird...
...that (some of) you guys name a bunch of stuff (e.g. Fort Bragg) after actual literal traitors, and wave around the flag that is literally all about treason, so much so that you had a fucking actual shooting war about it.
New That's the small stuff: Science is false ergo: Die! Planet {then: Truthiness false: Die! brainz)
Ya gots a Drumpf-clone-BJ [!!] t'other other sid of the Pond; when the Language of The Bard matches the moron-Speak of this side? lemmingization is proven
not fanciful: the corpses are already scattered about..because Language murther is no longer theoretical cf. The Plague responses.

Drumpf + BoJo-in-a bathyscaphe at bottom of Marianas Trench: International committeee on tending-ship cuts cable.
(Anything less? is still a planetary Cop-out.)
This side? promulgation: every Repo in every 'Office' henceforth shall have attached 24/7 an 8# (or 8£) cannon-ball. For life. (Right on through the cremation).
New either you have a contract or you do not
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
     monumental follies? - (rcareaga) - (13)
         Churchill - (pwhysall) - (6)
             keeping Hitler across the Channel - (rcareaga)
             Re: "only an act of truly diabolical enormity that is going to take the shine off that" - (a6l6e6x) - (4)
                 Churchill was more than a little problematic in dealing with India. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                     He probably also deliberately killed a bunch of Americans. - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                         My mater was a fan of his n-Vol books [version-of!] WW-II - (Ashton)
                     dont forget he was the first to gas the kurds as well -NT - (boxley)
         You might be surprised that I favor their removal. - (mmoffitt) - (5)
             most of those statues were placed after firm political control returned to the white aristocracy - (boxley) - (1)
                 Quite agree {Wow!} ;^> -NT - (Ashton)
             I've always found it very weird... - (pwhysall) - (2)
                 That's the small stuff: Science is false ergo: Die! Planet {then: Truthiness false: Die! brainz) - (Ashton)
                 either you have a contract or you do not -NT - (boxley)

It's got cop tires, cop engine, cop suspension...
214 ms