The top end for fuel cells shows 1,000 Wh/kg, that's 1.35 kg

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Post #410,759 by drook 6/6/16 1:09:00 PM 6/6/16 1:09:00 PM Reply	The top end for fuel cells shows 1,000 Wh/kg, that's 1.35 kg That's a bit under 3 pounds. Manage a third of that and you've got ~10 lb unit that would need to be swapped out. That's self-service light. Half again and you need two units, which would be a better idea anyway. -- Drew
Post #410,763 by Another Scott 6/6/16 1:26:38 PM 6/6/16 1:28:06 PM Reply	But like the paper says, fuel cells are slow. And refilling fuel cells with hydrogen is fast, so they wouldn't need to be swapped out. As I understand it, fuel cells are good for providing lots of energy (Wh) but can't do it quickly (because it works via chemical reactions - atoms moving across membranes and such). So if you want to cruise at 50 mph on flat ground for 6 hours, they're probably great for that. If you want to accelerate from 0-60 in < 10 s, they're probably not at all great for that due to the low power density (energy provided per unit time). Just to see what batteries and fuel cells are up against, see where they are compared to gasoline and diesel fuel below: Powering trackless transportation affordably a tough problem... Cheers, Scott. Edited by Another Scott June 6, 2016, 01:28:06 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #410,764 by drook 6/6/16 1:40:42 PM 6/6/16 1:40:42 PM Reply	Hybrid is is, then Take today's gas/electric hybrid and swap out the gasoline engine for a fuel cell. -- Drew

another fallen idol - (rcareaga) - (72) - May 31, 2016, 08:24:52 PM EDT

with Browns support, how many votes does that drive in Bernie's direction? -NT - (boxley) - (1) - May 31, 2016, 09:06:11 PM EDT

Re: with Browns support, how many votes does that drive in Bernie's direction? - (rcareaga) - May 31, 2016, 10:21:49 PM EDT

another one over the side - (rcareaga) - (68) - May 31, 2016, 10:58:01 PM EDT

Hell, Hayden admitted he sold out as early as 1992. - (mmoffitt) - (8) - June 1, 2016, 08:21:40 AM EDT

re: the last. Are you sure you want to go there? Mr. GA pilot? ;-p -NT - (Another Scott) - (1) - June 1, 2016, 08:33:19 AM EDT

It's not a secret to me that my politics don't play well with my pocketbook. -NT - (mmoffitt) - June 1, 2016, 08:40:04 AM EDT

As you have pointed out - (rcareaga) - (5) - June 1, 2016, 10:04:28 AM EDT

I really don't understand your animus toward a vote from me for Trump. - (mmoffitt) - (4) - June 1, 2016, 10:21:49 AM EDT

Well, that would be in line with comrade Kim Jong-un. - (a6l6e6x) - June 1, 2016, 02:21:12 PM EDT

Ah, the "Let's you and him fight..." school of advocacy. - (Another Scott) - (2) - June 1, 2016, 03:21:35 PM EDT

How's that going for Egypt? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1) - June 1, 2016, 04:33:21 PM EDT

Countries ruled by the military for decades often have problems when the revolution comes. - (Another Scott) - June 1, 2016, 04:59:07 PM EDT

Umm hmmm. Yup. - (hnick) - (58) - June 1, 2016, 10:33:35 AM EDT

Don't like rainbows and unicorns, bunkie? - (rcareaga) - (57) - June 1, 2016, 07:47:49 PM EDT

Your projection is off - (hnick) - (56) - June 2, 2016, 06:01:36 AM EDT

I don't think RC is applauding the rise of Trump. - (Another Scott) - (6) - June 2, 2016, 08:59:01 AM EDT

have you ever read anything but her publicity items? - (boxley) - (5) - June 2, 2016, 09:20:30 AM EDT

Yet she is incredibly popular. - (Another Scott) - (4) - June 2, 2016, 10:50:26 AM EDT

maybe, but after 20 years in public eye, no one that was not her up and close loyal staff - (boxley) - (3) - June 2, 2016, 12:36:57 PM EDT

Meh. - (Another Scott) - (2) - June 2, 2016, 12:44:43 PM EDT

wonder how much she paid for that? -NT - (boxley) - (1) - June 2, 2016, 02:18:20 PM EDT

rofl. :-) -NT - (Another Scott) - June 2, 2016, 02:27:58 PM EDT

I don't think anyone is celebrating. - (malraux) - June 2, 2016, 09:24:23 AM EDT

I'll attempt to clarify - (rcareaga) - (47) - June 5, 2016, 11:40:25 PM EDT

Well said. Thanks. -NT - (Another Scott) - June 2, 2016, 08:24:10 PM EDT

Re: I'll attempt to clarify - (mmoffitt) - (45) - June 3, 2016, 07:10:55 PM EDT

I didn't say it wasn't a laudable goal - (rcareaga) - (44) - June 3, 2016, 08:15:07 PM EDT

We can never accomplish what we REFUSE to try. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (43) - June 3, 2016, 10:45:01 PM EDT

I'm also not going to fly to the moon on gossamer wings - (rcareaga) - (42) - June 4, 2016, 12:14:25 AM EDT

if clinton promised everyone a pony I would expect right after her swearing in to open my front - (boxley) - (1) - June 4, 2016, 07:12:37 PM EDT

you don't care for Hillary Clinton, box? - (rcareaga) - June 5, 2016, 01:07:34 AM EDT

Wall Street tax for openers. You can read about that on his site. - (mmoffitt) - (39) - June 5, 2016, 06:37:00 PM EDT

The people who have been hurt the most aren't on board with Bernie. - (Another Scott) - (17) - June 5, 2016, 07:12:13 PM EDT

EXACTLY. - (mmoffitt) - (14) - June 6, 2016, 08:59:32 AM EDT

People in divided government have to compromise. Imagine that. - (Another Scott) - (10) - June 6, 2016, 09:59:16 AM EDT

What's divided? Two Right Wings don't count. - (mmoffitt) - (9) - June 6, 2016, 11:35:35 AM EDT

Your continuing to say that doesn't make it so. - (Another Scott) - (8) - June 6, 2016, 12:00:51 PM EDT

What are we arguing again? - (mmoffitt) - (7) - June 6, 2016, 01:26:00 PM EDT

No, here's where we part - (drook) - (2) - June 6, 2016, 01:42:08 PM EDT

Because the Democratic Party is also running a Republican. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - June 6, 2016, 01:56:54 PM EDT

Well *that* certainly lets you off the hook, mein Herr. -NT - (rcareaga) - June 6, 2016, 02:01:32 PM EDT

But Hillary isn't a Republican. - (Another Scott) - (3) - June 6, 2016, 01:46:36 PM EDT

*I'm* getting hung up on labels? - (mmoffitt) - (2) - June 6, 2016, 01:55:09 PM EDT

Only label I'm hung up on is "best on on the current ballot" - (drook) - June 6, 2016, 01:59:15 PM EDT

A President can do almost nothing by himself/herself. - (Another Scott) - June 6, 2016, 02:12:01 PM EDT

"it was a formative period of her life" - (rcareaga) - (2) - June 6, 2016, 01:58:08 PM EDT

I don't think he even knew about her. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - June 6, 2016, 02:15:18 PM EDT

So Treuhaft's stodgy reactionary partner hired her - (rcareaga) - June 6, 2016, 09:50:28 PM EDT

You've GOT to be kidding. Obamacare? - (mmoffitt) - (1) - June 6, 2016, 09:09:30 AM EDT

Tell me about how great Social Security was for AAs when it started. (roll-eyes) -NT - (Another Scott) - June 6, 2016, 09:53:23 AM EDT

unconvinced - (rcareaga) - (6) - June 5, 2016, 08:04:55 PM EDT

Betting on the "breaks" needed to get to the moon was equally shaky, no? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (5) - June 6, 2016, 09:00:49 AM EDT

It wasn't a bet. - (Another Scott) - (3) - June 6, 2016, 09:55:48 AM EDT

Medicare for the elderly first, then for everyone. How is that NOT incremental? - (mmoffitt) - (2) - June 6, 2016, 11:39:08 AM EDT

It's not complicated. - (Another Scott) - (1) - June 6, 2016, 11:45:42 AM EDT

Oh, you've read her transcripts, then? -NT - (mmoffitt) - June 6, 2016, 11:47:04 AM EDT

Not as shaky as your repeated recourse to this analogy. -NT - (rcareaga) - June 6, 2016, 01:16:37 PM EDT

I'd love to see a comparable goal - (drook) - (13) - June 5, 2016, 08:07:58 PM EDT

can do that now but would need to be near a thunderstorm -NT - (boxley) - June 5, 2016, 09:55:55 PM EDT

I think that's harder than going to the moon. - (Another Scott) - (11) - June 5, 2016, 10:11:01 PM EDT

Replaceable batteries gets you the charge time - (drook) - (10) - June 6, 2016, 07:34:24 AM EDT

In the real world, people aren't going to be swapping 1000# of batteries in 2 minutes. ;-) - (Another Scott) - (9) - June 6, 2016, 08:50:56 AM EDT

you need to go to a better place - (boxley) - (2) - June 6, 2016, 10:47:20 AM EDT

Interesting. - (Another Scott) - (1) - June 6, 2016, 11:22:41 AM EDT

can be done doesnt mean it will be done -NT - (boxley) - June 6, 2016, 11:24:32 AM EDT

So maybe getting battery weight down / energy density up is step 1 - (drook) - (5) - June 6, 2016, 12:29:54 PM EDT

It's not clear how much more can be done with current technology. - (Another Scott) - (4) - June 6, 2016, 12:59:42 PM EDT

The top end for fuel cells shows 1,000 Wh/kg, that's 1.35 kg - (drook) - (2) - June 6, 2016, 01:09:00 PM EDT

But like the paper says, fuel cells are slow. - (Another Scott) - (1) - June 6, 2016, 01:28:06 PM EDT

Hybrid is is, then - (drook) - June 6, 2016, 01:40:42 PM EDT

Bitchin Soyuz pic, also brief energy-density graph.. - (Ashton) - June 7, 2016, 05:28:20 PM EDT

Here it is in a cartoon. - (a6l6e6x) - June 1, 2016, 03:55:53 PM EDT

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