What's divided? Two Right Wings don't count.

Post #410,748 by mmoffitt 6/6/16 11:35:35 AM 6/6/16 11:35:35 AM Reply	What's divided? Two Right Wings don't count. You are casting history in fiction. The New Democrats ARE the Old Republicans. Take a look at the following quote FROM AN OLD REPUBLICAN and hopefully you'll see the truth of that. Should any political party attempt to abolish social security unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group of course that believes you can do these things. Among them are a few other Texas oil millionaires and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid. ― Dwight D. Eisenhower https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/153796-should-any-political-party-attempt-to-abolish-social-security-unemployment
Post #410,755 by Another Scott 6/6/16 12:00:51 PM 6/6/16 12:00:51 PM Reply	Your continuing to say that doesn't make it so. One could just as easily say that Eisenhower would be a Democrat these days, and there's actually evidence to support that position. Which party would issues statements like these now: Under the attached plan, approximately 10 1/2 million individuals would be offered social security protection for the first time. About 6 1/2 million of these would be brought into the system; the remaining 4 million would be eligible for coverage under voluntary group arrangements. New groups to be covered would include self-employed farmers; many more farm workers and domestic workers than are now covered; doctors, dentists, lawyers, architects, accounts and other professional people; members of many state and local retirement systems on a voluntary group basis; clergymen on a voluntary group basis and several other smaller groups. As the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives proceeds with its studies to improve the Social Security Act, I strongly commend to this plan for the extension of coverage to most of the major groups now covered by any social insurance or public retirement system. This is a specific plan for a specific purpose--the extension of coverage. Other important improvements in the Social Security Act are now under study and will be subject of further recommendation. There are two points about these proposals which I cannot stress too strongly. One is my belief that they would add immeasurably to the peace of mind and security of the individual citizens who would be covered for the first time under this plan; the second is my belief that they would add greatly to the national sense of domestic security. The systematic practice of setting aside funds during the productive years are over--or to one's survivors in the event of death--is important to the strength of our traditions and our economy. We must not only preserve this systematic practice, but extend it at every desirable opportunity. We now have both such an opportunity and a definite plan. I commend it to the Congress for its consideration. I wasn't around when Eisenhower was President. I remember GOP leaders who said things like this and this and this. YMMV. Cheers, Scott.
Post #410,762 by mmoffitt 6/6/16 1:26:00 PM 6/6/16 1:26:00 PM Reply	What are we arguing again? I've said (in essence), "Since Reagan, the Democratic Party has morphed into the Republican Party and the Republican Party has morphed into the Lunatic Party." You've claimed that isn't so. That the Democratic Party is very different from the Old Republican Party. I then post a quote from an Old Style Republican President and you say, "Well, he would be a Democrat today ..." (which I think, is MY point) and then cite Reagan and a couple of successors in an apparent attempt to claim New Democrats aren't New Republicans. I'll give you that. Heck, that's what I've said. From my POV, you claim New Republicans aren't like New Democrats, so New Democrats are not like Old Republicans. That doesn't follow. I think we might be talking past one another again. Here's a summary of my views and I'd be surprised if you disagreed: (1) Are New Republicans worse than Old Republicans? Of course they are. They are insane, and either stupid (useful idiots), corrupt supporters of or members of the oligarchy. (2) Are New Republicans worse than New Democrats? Of course they are for reasons too obvious to list. Where we part, maybe, is here: (3) Are New Democrats worse than Old Republicans? No. They are essentially indistinguishable from one another. And that's why Hillary won't get my vote in November. I'm sick of voting for Republicans.
Post #410,765 by drook 6/6/16 1:42:08 PM 6/6/16 1:42:08 PM Reply	No, here's where we part (2) Are New Republicans worse than New Democrats? Of course they are for reasons too obvious to list. So you will vote for Trump. Because reasons. -- Drew
Post #410,769 by mmoffitt 6/6/16 1:56:54 PM 6/6/16 1:56:54 PM Reply	Because the Democratic Party is also running a Republican. And I don't think it's a good idea to let the New DNC think they can do that every cycle. If I pull the lever for Donald, it won't be a vote for Donald, but a vote against Hillary and her Old Style Republican Party.
Post #410,772 by rcareaga 6/6/16 2:01:32 PM 6/6/16 2:01:32 PM Reply	Well that certainly lets you off the hook, mein Herr.
Post #410,766 by Another Scott 6/6/16 1:46:36 PM 6/6/16 1:46:36 PM Reply	But Hillary isn't a Republican. Was Eisenhower the same kind of Republican as Lincoln? Was FDR the same kind of Democrat as Jackson? You're getting hung up on labels. In the fall, you should vote for the party (whatever their name) that will move the country the direction you want it to go given the reality of American politics and the American political system. Jill Stein has lots of good sound-bites, but she's got some insane positions as well: * We are in state of emergency; not state of recovery. (Jan 2015) * Romney & Obama are both pro-1% big corporation. (Feb 2012) * Cancel college debt: it's now $35,000 per student. (Jan 2016) * Move school decisions from national to grassroots level. (Dec 2011) * Moratorium on GMOs until they are proven safe. (Jun 2015) * Term limits end guaranteed re-election & lifetime incumbency. (Jul 2015) * Earmarks grease the skids for corruption. (Jul 2015) * Affordable Care Act is neither Affordable nor Caring. (Oct 2012) * ObamaCare was step backward for goal of single payer. (Jan 2012) * Disarm North Korea as part of worldwide nuclear disarmament. (Jul 2015) * Guaranteed jobs for all who need work. (Oct 2015) * Tea Party hijacked by funding from major corporations. (Mar 2012) * Dems & GOP are both sinking ships; one just sinks faster. (Feb 2012) Even if you think she's the best candidate, recognize that she would have almost no support in Congress and would be unable to get almost anything enacted. (An election that resulted in Stein being elected over Hillary wouldn't give Stein any coat-tails.) Purity kills. Vote Team D in the fall. FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #410,768 by mmoffitt 6/6/16 1:55:09 PM 6/6/16 1:55:09 PM Reply	I'm getting hung up on labels? You want me to vote for Democrats for no other reason than they are Democrats. If Stein were on my ballot, I'd be voting for Stein. The only Old Style Democrat running is Bernie and the New DNC has done everything in its power to quash his effort. I don't vote for labels, I vote for people. Or I used to anyway. I'm seriously considering un-registering.
Post #410,771 by drook 6/6/16 1:59:15 PM 6/6/16 1:59:15 PM Reply	Only label I'm hung up on is "best on on the current ballot" Which, I believe, is what AScott (and everyone who's not you and Box) has been saying all along. -- Drew
Post #410,774 by Another Scott 6/6/16 2:12:01 PM 6/6/16 2:12:01 PM Reply	A President can do almost nothing by himself/herself. You need a President and Congress to be of the same party to get things done in American politics. Parties control the leadership in Congress, and the leadership determines what is considered, what is voted on, etc., etc. You're apparently Ok with black males dying earlier under GOP administrations. The parties aren't the same. Vote for the better party if you want to actually see progress. Cheers, Scott.

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