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New Church history should also be more widely taught.
Most churches ignore it almost completely.

Wade.
New They don't passively ignore it, they actively ignore it
What I mean is they aren't simply not paying attention. They know it's there and they're carefully looking in a different direction.
--

Drew
New but pastor, the pictures in the bible dont show them dressed like this?
shaddup and put on your white hood
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
New Yes.
Actual response from a pastor I know was "we don't have time to teach it in Sunday morning sermons". This is in a fairly mainstream evangelical church that is basically this side of conservative. It could be a lot worse.

At least in all the churches I've been a part of (including that one) they tell people to read their Bibles.

Wade.
New It's been a long time...
At least in all the churches I've been a part of (including that one) they tell people to read their Bibles.


As a kid I went to a (Southern) Baptist church for quite a while (along with, previously, a little Lutheran church - loved that one. The interior was low (human scale) and dark with nice carpeting and small bright stained-glass windows) and spent a lot of time in Sunday School. People loved their Bibles, but careful reading of the whole thing wasn't especially encouraged. Sermons would be based on just a few verses. Sunday School class would be about just a few passages each Sunday.

There were always a few kids who bragged about reading the whole Bible (at least once), but it never seemed that they had any special insight on what it all meant.

Back in those days - the late '60s, early '70s - people I went to church with didn't scream that the Bible was the INERRANT WORD OF GOD even if that was the underlying belief. It was, as I recall, treated reverently but was viewed as something that had to be studied carefully to know what it was really saying.

The big deal was about saving souls and getting more people to join up. A lot of effort went into encouraging people to be good and kind to each other. That we're all flawed and can't save ourselves on our own. That bad things will happen after we die if we don't join up. Favorite passages were used to promote those goals, but there wasn't much discussion about the logic of the Creation or proof of the details, etc. There wasn't an in-your-face battle between Science and Medicine and what they believed.

In the US, much of Protestant Christianity has morphed in very strange and disconcerting ways since then. Being rich in this life (and treating wealth and power as a metric for godliness), working to shrink the public space and make it more insular, punching down on the poor and outcast, and using politics to make society more 'religious' and yet more intolerant are all a pox on the country now. It's disgusting. Of course, it's nothing new, and these things do go in cycles, but it's still a problem even if it is much worse elsewhere.

FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Reading the bible... heh
On my mothers side, they are all Irish Catholic (except for a few switcheroos some generations back, only for political reasons) back to the bog. I was raised RC and went to parochial schools. I was then sent off to a male only Catholic high school on the insistence of my grandmother. I was 14 years old, socially inept, never had a girl friend, usually never more than one or two male friends, and I grew up in a house that was full of books and no television. I read a lot, including the bible, time to time, for reference purposes. At CL (Cathedral Latin, the high school I was sent to), they had a demerit system; if you got 30 demerits you got expelled. Religion class was obligatory, and I enjoyed it immensely: there was a lay (hugely fundamentalist) religion teacher who asked stupid questions and I responded with footnoted answers. He hated that. Him: "The bible is absolutely true!" Me: "Noah's Ark is true?" Him: "Yes!" Me: "2 elephants?" Him: "Yes" ... Me: "2 ants?" Him: "yes" Me: "2 ant eaters" Him: "Yes!" Me: "those must have been the hungriest ant eaters you ever saw..." Him "Go to the office!". Fortunately my great-uncle, brother Nurthern, was vice principal at the time, so we held my demerits to about 28. Until English class, where we were supposed to write a paper about some biblical tripe. I did a very satirical (and probably abusive) essay and footnoted every assertion I made. You just can't make this shit up... Brother D, the english teacher, had me read it in front of the class so he could mock me and prove his points. Every time he tried, I indicated the footnote supporting my position. He lost his temper and slapped me across the face in front of the class. I've always been a counter puncher; I didn't hit him that hard, but there was a desk behind him and he landed on his head. He was out for about a half a minute at most. I was expelled from CL with high honors in sciences, lesser so in religion and english.
I went to public high school and met the first love of my life, a slashing beautiful intelligent blonde girl. She showed up when my grandmother was in town; clean, beautiful, well spoken, well dressed including the gold star of David around her neck. My grandmother freaked and yelled at my mother, who told me I had to tell the priest in confession. I went to church and the only priest on duty was an ancient old misogynist, bigoted, old fart who told me: "You have to give her up or don't come back.". Me: "OK". Next sunday, my mother bangs on my bedroom door: "you have to get up for church" Me: "He said not to come back"
I've only been back for weddings and funerals and that is of respect for the people, not the church.
"Religion, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable."
~ AMBROSE BIERCE
(1842-1914)
Expand Edited by hnick March 28, 2015, 01:04:05 PM EDT
New The worst thing about religion is the people in power.
J and her twin sister were raised RC. They moved from VA to MA when they were young and things got a little jumbled about where they were in their progression in the faith.

Apparently they somehow ended up having their first Communion before they had their first Confession (or something like that).

When the priest found out, he FREAKED OUT!!

"That's a MORTAL SIN!!1 You're going to go to HELL!!11"

Who does that to a child??

They had to do all kinds of penance prayers and were understandably upset little girls.

She still talks about it, decades later...

:-(

It sounds like you had a good head on your shoulders from an early age. :-)

Thanks.

Cheers,
Scott.
New "Who does that to a child??"

Tampa Bay Times political editor Adam Smith noted on Twitter that Cruz had to pause his speech to respond to a little girl in the audience who was young enough to be carried by her mother.

"Ted Cruz literally just scared a little girl in NH," Smith wrote. "'The world is on fire?!' she asked, repeating his line on Obama-Clinton foreign policy."

"The world is on fire," Cruz replied, turning to face the girl and her mother. "Yes! Your world is on fire!"



http://crooksandliars.com/2015/03/your-world-fire-ted-cruz-shouts-insane




Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous.
- - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897
New Reading the bible - a funny.
D, one of my less stable assistants, was an admirer of the Dalai Lama, but she fell under the spell of a TV preacher. The picture of His Holiness and various other evidence disappeared, and a little plastic gazebo housing a manger and Baby Jesus appeared at her desk.

A couple weeks later she asked me to order a bible for her on-line. I searched and found a nice study bible. It came in on a Friday and I handed it to her to take home.

I know she spent some hours of the weekend reading it - because Monday morning the gazebo was gone and the Dalai Lama was back up on the wall.
New :-)
New Another funny - not bible
Back in ancient times when I was gainfully employed, my boss was hit on by the Hari Krishna folks, and they gave him a portrait of A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. He pinned it on the wall above his desk and said "That's my Swami".

I responded by pinning up my own swami, a portrait of Aleister Crowley dressed as a Turkish Alchemist.

A few weeks later he tired if it, ripped it down off the wall and tossed in the trash. The next morning he was stopped at the guard booth and escorted off the property.

I immediately went out and got a frame for my swami's picture. No way was I taking it down.

Sales guy: "So, I hear you've taken over Earl's old job".

Me: "Yes".

Sales guy: "But you didn't get his title".

Me: "No - but I got the money".

Sales guy: "Well, I guess that shoots me down".

New the one that fester adams emulated?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
New Yeah, but he looked a lot different in the Turkish get-up.
New anteaters
Me: "Noah's Ark is true?" Him: "Yes!" Me: "2 elephants?" Him: "Yes" ... Me: "2 ants?" Him: "yes" Me: "2 ant eaters" Him: "Yes!" Me: "those must have been the hungriest ant eaters you ever saw..."
I will sacrifice a goat—or an ant—to Moloch for that.

reverently,
New There's reading and then there's reading.
First let me get out of the way that I've heard stories that show whole swathes of churches that are actively discouraged from reading their bibles. Or at least, discouraged from reading their Bible without the Correct Interpretation to hand, so to speak.

The tradition I grew up in exhorted you to read it, but (I see now) was not good at helping you understand it. For that, you relied on the sermon or the (hopefully approved) study notes in your Bible Study. The underlying belief was in one of fundamentals. So, the Bible was "inerrant", the Pentateuch was Moses' work, etc etc. Verses were often used out-of-context. Even from the pulpit teaching about the context of the scripture was rarely done and rarely appreciated. I see now there is a self-perpetuating cult of static knowledge.

The first church I called home would be what I would call Evangelical Conservative. But they had a tendancy to look towards Charismatic practices, too, even as they maintained a level of intellectualism. It is possible I am mis-remembering my first church, but we moved suburbs and hence churches when I was 12. The second church I called home was much the same. It was the same denomination - Australian Baptist, to distinguish it from the US's Southern Baptist, but I wonder how far apart in theology they really are.

I left my second church when I was 30 or so. The new church I found myself in was part of the Churches Of Christ in Australia - again, not the same as the US versions. As far as I can tell, theologically identical to my first two churches. None of the three would do the things that Westboro Baptist does, yet the beliefs are not miles apart.

But a funny thing happened a few years ago. The scholarship about the history of the Bible and of the history of the church became more accessible, largely with the help of the Internet and especially Wikipedia.

And I started learning about stories work.

It's all very well reading the Bible to reinforce what you think you know about and to share that with others. It's quite another thing to look at genuine research about how it came together. I think Conservative Evangelical churches don't like the latter because it challenges pre-conceived knowledge - and most pew-sitters don't want to do that.

Wade.
     Teaching evolution at the University of Kentucky. - (rcareaga) - (22)
         Ha! Typical of a Southern Baptist. - (mmoffitt)
         That is funny and sad at the same time. - (a6l6e6x)
         some people think the movie "waterboy" with adam sandler is a documentary -NT - (boxley)
         Church history should also be more widely taught. - (static) - (14)
             They don't passively ignore it, they actively ignore it - (drook) - (13)
                 but pastor, the pictures in the bible dont show them dressed like this? - (boxley)
                 Yes. - (static) - (11)
                     It's been a long time... - (Another Scott) - (10)
                         Reading the bible... heh - (hnick) - (8)
                             The worst thing about religion is the people in power. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                 "Who does that to a child??" - (lincoln)
                             Reading the bible - a funny. - (Andrew Grygus) - (4)
                                 :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                 Another funny - not bible - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                                     the one that fester adams emulated? -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                         Yeah, but he looked a lot different in the Turkish get-up. -NT - (Andrew Grygus)
                             anteaters - (rcareaga)
                         There's reading and then there's reading. - (static)
         A hard row to hoe.. where brains are pre-encrusted - (Ashton) - (3)
             "... deep mutual respect/transcending all the vicious racism ..." - (drook) - (2)
                 dont step in the kimosabe -NT - (boxley)
                 It is not Nice to delve too deeply - (Ashton)

Exterminate!
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