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New having read this thread
I credit Another Scott with the courage of his convictions, although I strongly disagree with most of the conclusions to which these have led him in this instance. I credit him, however, with intellectual honesty as opposed to the merely perverse contrarianism we have seen times past from one or two other (cough, cough) regulars.

Return with us to a more innocent era—let us say, the late Peter O'Toole's twentieth birthday in 1952, which happens to have been the day I was ejected from amniotic paradise. The NSA was three months and two days from its own fraught birth. The world of signals intelligence was a considerably simpler place, the bandwidth far narrower and the electronic information content several orders of magnitude more modest measured against today.

Today, we face The Terrorist Threat. Back then it was merely Stalin's nuclear-armed USSR. As Ashton's granny could tell you (had she not expired of pure bile since that time), this was nevertheless reason enough for certain liberties to be taken with our, er, liberties. So let's imagine the Post Office of 1952—or today—operating with the same lighthearted approach to the Fourth Amendment that the Deep State brings to bear upon e-communication today. Imagine that everything you have ever sent through the mail—every personal letter, every bill, every parcel—has been opened, photographed and cross-filed under the names of sender and recipient. No one has ever bothered to eyeball the contents, but there are filing cabinets full of these 8 x 10 glossies all through the decades. Who would have a problem with that?

I would.

Freeman and others have pointed out the dangers of what one analyst has called "turnkey totalitarianism": create a surveillance apparatus this comprehensive, this far-reaching, and the likelihood is that one day it will be deployed. But my objection starts way in advance of that line. I grew up in an era when the notion that the beastly Red Russians couldn't even write or phone one another without Big Brother sharing the line filled us with indignation on behalf of the enslaved peoples so deprived of privacy.

The NSA denies my right to privacy, but asserts absolutely its own privacy rights. Fuck that noise. sauce, goose, gander. The more I learn about Snowden and what he has done, the more I am disposed to admire him.

I remind Another Scott that my line of work, unfortunately, has put me right up against some of the middlingly thuggish elements of Homeland Security since 2003. Many of these are bad, stupid, brutal people, pumped-up school bullies with truncheons, handcuffs and the various other apparatus of the modern police state. I don't see a lot of conscience or sensitivity to civil liberties in this lot, and I'd be surprised if the NSA is significantly more enlightened.

cordially,
New Oh...
I'd be surprised if the NSA is significantly more enlightened.
The NSA is very well enlightened to the cretin you and all of us are. They've know more about us than any of us should be comfortable with. This includes Another Scott.

The more and more money they spend off the books, the more and more storage and "Meta Data" pointing at "Real Data" they will have to reference. The 8"x10" pichures... well they gots a slew of them... and more all the time.

Wave.

Yes, it sucks.
--
greg@gregfolkert.net
"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
New Believe that 'enlightenment' has a long history as a symbol
for quite-More than: mindless accumulation of and Boolean manipulation of, mere 'data'. Let us Save that word, please.
This distinction is as important as the.. say, relationships of data to information, information to knowledge, knowledge to wisdom
--and most importantly: an ability to tell the Difference.
[No, there are No 'algorithms' in that arena for making the process easy for simpletons or the diseased.]

(The Ministry of Truth--preceding 'chronologically' the NSA--was engaged in hourly revising history so as to accord with today's need for a consistent justification for:
all the other goings-on in that little parable.)

Kurt V. could explain it-all lots more colorfully. But he died.

PS: "The Enlightenment", celebrated via its becoming "an Era" happened. But as its principles are today an 'endangered species'
--perhaps soon that "Era" shall be re-Named? Then, if there's a next-generation, it shall never have existed.
And so it Goes.




New 'Turnkey totalitarianism'; its causality is enshrined within
that veritable Murican koan of entrepreneurial pre-justifications for doing.. This ... or That:

Build It and.. They WIll Come.

[Perhaps for some, the obvious must be stated]

We Have Built It and..



Carrion, sleepwalkers
New We Have Built It and...
Thou sayest.
New That wouldn't be so bad...
if they all weren't all Capitalist Pigs. ;-)
     former US ambassador to the Saudis - (rcareaga) - (51)
         There is some judicial pushback. - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
             Careful what we wish for... - (Another Scott) - (1)
                 the balloon juicer flails rather nicely - (boxley)
         Sorry to say, no. - (Another Scott) - (41)
             So, Scott... - (rcareaga) - (26)
                 dead naked woman or live young boy wouldnt make a difference - (boxley)
                 He's offering an opinion piece - it's not persuasive to me. - (Another Scott) - (24)
                     Re: He's offering an opinion piece - it's not persuasive to - (pwhysall) - (20)
                         nothing, we are entitled to your emails - (boxley)
                         Re: He's offering an opinion piece - it's not persuasive to - (Another Scott) - (18)
                             Re: He's offering an opinion piece - it's not persuasive to - (pwhysall) - (17)
                                 And that's our protection. - (Another Scott) - (16)
                                     Heh, no it's not. - (pwhysall) - (10)
                                         It's not their mission. - (Another Scott) - (9)
                                             Well said! - (a6l6e6x)
                                             Here's my problem - (drook) - (1)
                                                 Ok. And there's probably a good recent example of that... - (Another Scott)
                                             Aw, come on. - (pwhysall) - (5)
                                                 <sigh> - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                     Scott, here's how they get around all that - (pwhysall)
                                                     That argument I'm sympathetic to - (drook) - (1)
                                                         :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                 Meanwhile, in 1941, the Brits in Bermuda... - (a6l6e6x)
                                     J'Accuse..! that you are failing to - (Ashton) - (4)
                                         That's why the people working there matter. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                             need an James Angleton - (boxley)
                                             Fair. enough. - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                 Thanks. I'll keep thinking about these things... -NT - (Another Scott)
                     'it's not persuasive' ... ... ... - (Ashton) - (2)
                         Some answers. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                             Agreed.. our laundry-lists are similar enough. - (Ashton)
             "Snowden is a coward." - (rcareaga) - (12)
                 "let's surrender some safety to keep ourselves free." yup -NT - (boxley) - (5)
                     "let's surrender some guns to keep ourselves free." - (folkert) - (4)
                         so when are you turning yours in? - (boxley) - (3)
                             So giving up your safety (aka guns)... - (folkert) - (2)
                                 why? I know yours are not - (boxley) - (1)
                                     Nope. Of course you don't read for comprehension. - (folkert)
                 On Manning. - (Another Scott) - (5)
                     pollard is out? thats news to me -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                         He's approaching 30 years. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                             Noises about him possibly being released soon. - (Another Scott)
                     Pollard to be out on parole in November. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                         Pollard released today. 5 years parole in US. - (Another Scott)
             Fair Trial. Heh. Like the Rosenbergs? Sacco and Vanzetti? -NT - (mmoffitt)
         having read this thread - (rcareaga) - (5)
             Oh... - (folkert) - (1)
                 Believe that 'enlightenment' has a long history as a symbol - (Ashton)
             'Turnkey totalitarianism'; its causality is enshrined within - (Ashton) - (1)
                 We Have Built It and... - (rcareaga)
             That wouldn't be so bad... - (mmoffitt)

It is known desire. They are totally delicious!
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