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New Thanks, but...
I've seen my share of the dark side of humanity, too. I may be too trusting, but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. :-) (No slight intended.)

I have no illusions about how the technology and the collected information could be misused. And I have no illusions that there are people at Ft. Meade and elsewhere who have broken the rules and spied on people (or tried to) in illegal ways at some time or other.

I just don't see that it could happen the way Greenwald and Snowden describe given the limitations of current technology and the vast mountains of data out there.

If you have a few minutes, look at some of the comments at Balloon-Juice. I find these compelling - YMMV, of course :-)

http://www.balloon-j.../#comment-4525827

http://www.balloon-j.../#comment-4525855

http://www.balloon-j.../#comment-4525896

That strikes me as the reality of the situation.

If enough people get riled up about this NSA system, it will be changed. It would be nice if the changes were a reasonable reaction to concerns based on facts and actual abuses or short-comings. But if too many people get riled up about things that aren't facts or aren't abuses and it causes changes that make things worse but satisfy the screaming, then Snowden's and Greenwald's actions will have hurt their cause, and the cause of everyone who cares about sensible policies.

As Martin said in the first link, to control the ability of governments to collect private information, the only solution is policy. There is no technological fix. And policy depends on trust: citizens have to believe that the policy is being followed and that the policy is fair. If the policy is sensible but people don't believe it, then it won't work. So we need to know what the policy is and have a sensible debate about whether it needs to be changed or scrapped.

But even with good policies, there are times when the bad people on the inside will only be stopped after the fact. I'm not naive about that.

Taking at face value the comments of a young guy who has had wild swings of opinion ("people who disclose classified information should be shot in the nuts"/"I don't believe I have done anything wrong"), who vastly inflate their own importance ("I made close to $200k a year"/"I could wiretap the President of the United States"), and so forth, is a step I'm unwilling to take. He may simply be a flawed messenger, but his story about the nearly all-powerful NSA spying on everyone for $20M a year (the PRISM slide) doesn't pass the smell test for me.

But I'm repeating myself. :-)

You've worked in a high-tech publicly-funded organization. You know how slowly things move; you know that most people there don't see the big picture and that nobody knows how all the pieces work together (let alone some young guy who's been there a few months). You know how easy it is for PowerPoint presentations to obfuscate and to be misinterpreted even when no deception is intended (Tufte's examples). There's lots of reasons why Snowden's story could be different from reality.

Maybe I'm wrong and Snowden and Greenwald have done a great service to us and the NSA has been spying on all of us individually and S&G will have managed to stop us all from being rounded up and sent to Guantanamo were we to step out of line. Maybe. We'll see.

Thanks again. :-)

Cheers,
Scott.
New 'Twixt the 3, plus other samples: concur on several
Indeed the bloon-juice folk have pretty-well parsed the range of possibilities.
Probably the most incisive word found here--Martin's policy comment--is a large clue re. the achievable limits of public confidence -vs- effectiveness for the snoops.

And yes, this guy Is unlovely--at 29 he should have outgrown the salary-brag and the wiretap-the-prez ploy.
It's possible that he fits your emphases, and was? is? more interested in Self-adoration than in awakening the slumbering.

OTOH: it looks--already--as if the Play has, maybe for the first Serious-time: successfully galvanized an authentic effort (just promised/not yet actual)
of BHO et al to spell-out the Plan, the trade-offs..
via Public airing/contemplation of all the factors (amidst that tiny minority who ever delve at all.)
'We' don't Do that very well, if at all--
but as with the query of the US Prez [ Failsafe ] of the Premiere, after agreeing to nuke NYC:
..unless you can think that the gesture alone is.. sufficient???. (We know how that went.)

This factoid alone, IMO can somewhat ameliorate his insouciance or vanity--perhaps enough that, along with this Public disclosure, there just might be tacked-on:
Something intelligent re. Actual pukka Whistle-blowers, acknowledging that--in a society already infinitely-complex, homo-sap error and duplicity Shall Occur Regularly.

ie We Need those suckers, even the unlovely ones. So then--there should be Publicly-discussed New Rules™ on this agenda, concerning the Next {inevitable} Leaks.

As it's a crap-shoot whether this guy's Valuable contribution outweighs his faults
[what 'New' intel did he give the Russo-Chinese former-axis, of any consequence??]
I declare then: it's a tie! re. what the fate of this guy 'ought' to be / (were there any Real 'justice' remaining in our current System.)

Just another Morality Play, I wot.


Ed: Bonus! from the firedoggers..

Denunciation of the Firebaggers and Shaming of the Obots

Is that from The Rite of Spring?
Expand Edited by Ashton July 9, 2013, 10:40:11 PM EDT
New hurt what cause
pass a law that if you dig into peoples private shit without a warrant you go to jail. Identify a suspect, convince a judge you have cause then ask for private data to be collected from the companies that hold the data. Done. If your argument is that several thousand people will die in attacks, thats the price of not living with the stazi police state. You do realize that the FUCKING GERMANS have a problem with what we are doing to our own people?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
New LRPD I posted a little while back fits here
I'd rather be wrong occasionally than live in fear and be right occasionally.
--

Drew
     Snowden: 8 key quotes - (Ashton) - (67)
         Meh. - (Another Scott) - (64)
             That was before torture and indefinite detention were policy -NT - (jake123) - (62)
                 not to mention unsanctioned assassination... -NT - (hnick) - (61)
                     sensory deprivation and solitary confinement.... -NT - (jake123) - (3)
                         Snowden's a civilian. -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                             So's Richard Reid. -NT - (jake123) - (1)
                                 Not domestic espionage or leak. -NT - (Another Scott)
                     Hyperbole much you two? - (Another Scott) - (56)
                         even a live boy eh? -NT - (boxley)
                         I think it's really clear that Americans don't really - (jake123) - (29)
                             Yes, we have big blinders. - (Another Scott) - (28)
                                 ahem, note the "outside of the borders" - (boxley) - (23)
                                     They can't use Americans' data without a warrant. HTH. -NT - (Another Scott) - (22)
                                         s/can't/can't in theory/ -NT - (pwhysall)
                                         wrong, ana analyst can choose to check the data -NT - (boxley) - (20)
                                             Re: wrong, ana analyst can choose to check the data - (Another Scott) - (19)
                                                 live boy, etc -NT - (boxley) - (18)
                                                     More words please. - (Another Scott) - (17)
                                                         sounds like you would excuse the live boy scenario - (boxley) - (16)
                                                             Back to when? - (Another Scott) - (15)
                                                                 foreign, get them out of the domestic pool -NT - (boxley) - (14)
                                                                     How? They say they do that now. - (Another Scott) - (13)
                                                                         rm -rf /domestic_data_collection -NT - (boxley) - (12)
                                                                             You're just trolling now. -NT - (Another Scott) - (11)
                                                                                 nope, remove all domestic data from their servers - (boxley) - (10)
                                                                                     See, Scott, now you've got me agreeing - (rcareaga) - (2)
                                                                                         I know the arguments. I just don't see it. :-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                             I hope I'm being unwontedly gloomy - (rcareaga)
                                                                                     How? - (Another Scott) - (6)
                                                                                         Technical question - (drook) - (2)
                                                                                             They seem to monitor all kinds of EM radiation. Maps. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                                 Nice piece by Fallows.. - (Ashton)
                                                                                         Re: How? - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                             Multiband phones are common. Verizon has them. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                                 sawright, -NT - (boxley)
                                 He "ran away to [y]our adversaries"? Which darn adversaries? - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                     Shorthand. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                         YOUR arguments, sure. But you're not the USA. - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                             Can't argue that. -NT - (Another Scott)
                         It's rare that I disagree with you - (rcareaga) - (24)
                             We'll see. - (Another Scott) - (18)
                                 Re: We'll see. - (rcareaga) - (17)
                                     Re: We'll see. - (Another Scott) - (16)
                                         delusional is a bit harsh - (rcareaga) - (15)
                                             If it wasn't done in malice or to reward enemies... - (Another Scott) - (12)
                                                 stayed in his barracks like manning? that didnt turn out wel -NT - (boxley) - (6)
                                                     The trial's not over; and military is different than civil. -NT - (Another Scott) - (5)
                                                         You are so full of sh*t - (crazy) - (4)
                                                             Soonergrunt's been watching the trial. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                                 Perhaps a Re-Education Camp is in order, yes? -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                 Practically a reprieve, eh? (+ a Larry Summers quip) - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                                     We'll see how both turn out. - (Another Scott)
                                                 About that head-crawling thing.. - (Ashton) - (4)
                                                     Thanks, but... - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                         'Twixt the 3, plus other samples: concur on several - (Ashton)
                                                         hurt what cause - (boxley) - (1)
                                                             LRPD I posted a little while back fits here - (drook)
                                             Welcome to the Party, Tovarisch. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                 rofl. -NT - (Another Scott)
                             Wife believes it was a tragic accident. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                 wonder if she has an old greek guy with an island lined up? -NT - (boxley)
                                 LA Coroner report. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                     Mnemosyne chimes in. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                         Plot thickens.. but will it gel? - (Ashton)
             Right. Under Obama, ... - (mmoffitt)
         Interesting/related Betty Cracker thread at Balloon-Juice. - (Another Scott) - (1)
             I like this one - (boxley)

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