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New Connecting a camcorder
In his 3/25/2002 column, James Coates, technology columnist for the Chicago Tribune, posted this Q & A:

Q. You recently (Dec. 24) said to wait six months or so to get into the DVD-burning game in the Windows world. I'm not that patient--if I were to get into the game today, what would be the recommended hardware and software to use?

I'm primarily interested in turning all my old VHS tapes into DVDs, so I am interested in the ability to create standard DVDs with scenes, subtitles, music, etc.

-- Marty Wolf, Hoffman Estates

A. Let me say once again, Mr. W., that as things stand, anybody who absolutely needs to get into burning home DVDs should move over to Macintosh and get one of Apple's G4s or iMacs with SuperDrive DVD burners and Apple's iDVD2 software.

Apple's system is so much better for DVDs than anything in the PC world that it's better for a Windows devotee to accept the challenges of learning the Macintosh operating system than to pop for an expensive PC setup with burners.

That said, I've had good luck lately burning DVDs with top-of-the-line machines from both Gateway and Hewlett-Packard Co. However, the process was slower than with Macs, and the authoring software lacked the powers of Apple's iDVD2. Furthermore, with Windows, one encounters compatibility issues.

The Gateway systems use the DVD-R/RAM format, while the HP systems use the somewhat more limited DVD + RW format. This means that you need to buy different types of blank discs for the two machines.

Although both machines produce DVDs filled with movies that can be played on most home DVD players, they cannot read each others' DVDs to acquire data.



As much as the wife would go through the roof if I purchased another computer, there doesn't seem to be a way (yet) to easily make DVDs out of camcorder movies on a Windows PC. So my question is: can I connect an 8mm camcorder and put the video onto DVDs on an iMac? I purchased a Sony 8mm camcorder right after my first child was born, and over the years I've filled several dozen 2 hour video tapes. Now I'd like to get them onto DVDs to share with the in-laws and other family members. Question is, can it be done? If so, how? Would it require additional hardware/software that doesn't come standard with the iMac?

Thanks for your consideration of this question.
lincoln
"Four score and seven years ago, I had a better sig"
New Forgot a point
The DVDs I'd like to create MUST be playable on home DVD players that are at least 1 - 2 years old. Mom does not own a computer, and pretty much has said she doesn't want one ever. However, both she and the in-laws do have DVD players.
lincoln
"Four score and seven years ago, I had a better sig"
New Let me take a shot
The camcorders that can connect to the Mac directly (or to Windows) are of the DV (Digital Video) variety. 8mm is, IIRC, analog.

So...you have to convert the analog video to DV format. Two ways of doing this:

- Get a DCV camcorder and essentially ignore all of your accumulated 8mm stuff.
(This is obviously a Bad Idea.)

OR

- Get an Analog/DV bridge such as the Dazzler. Do a search on Google with terms like 'analog' 'digital' 'video' 'converter' and you should pull up several references.

The advantages of the converter:
- You don't lose your analog video investment
- You don't have to buy all new DV equipment
- You can also import video from your VHS tapes.


So, it looks like you'll have to get *some* additional hardware (I think the Dazzler is about $US200 - $US300) but you'll be able to keep your Mac investment, at least.

As for compatibility with older players, I believe you're okay there but I don't have personal experience with this. At least, Apple says that iDVD will create discs compatible with players up to two years old or so.



Tom Sinclair
"Subverting Young Minds Since 03/13/2000"

"You won't get away with this," said Cutwell. He thought for a bit and
added, "Well, you will probably get away with it, but you'll feel bad about
it on your deathbed and you'll wish -- "
He stopped talking.
-- Cutwell tries to reason with the Duke of Sto Helit
(Terry Pratchett, Mort)
New Another option
Some DV cameras have analog inputs that allow you to use it as a converter. Depending on the converter you might find the price diff between it and the camera acceptable. I have access to a Sony model that allows this, though I haven't tried it in that configuration.

Also, IIRC the DVD writer used in the Mac is available for PCs (A Pioneer drive I think).
--
Chris Altmann
New Nit - there are some digital 8 mm camcorders.
They use something called "Digital8" format that isn't the same as DV.

Lincoln says he has 2 hour tapes - that means they're most certainly analog format (I've got an analog Hi8 Canon camcorder). Digital8 uses the same size tape as Hi8, but only gets 1 hour from a 2 hour tape.

To amplify some of your comments, Tom:

Assuming he doesn't want to buy a new camcorder, an interface box of some sort seems to be the thing he needs. E.g. Maybe something from [link|http://www.dazzle.com/buy/store_gut.html|Dazzle]. (Note I have no experience with these products.) I've read some stuff about dropped frames when trying to use the USB-interface devices or underpowered PCs. USB interfaces can be had for $70 or so, PCI interface cards and software are around $300. Also, video editing is very hardware intenstive, so be sure your Mac or PC is up-to-snuff.

Lincoln might want to read through some reviews at places like Amazon, [link|http://www.cdrlabs.com/articles/index.php?articleid=15|CDRLabs], [link|http://www.hwdaily.com/reviews/dazzle/dazzle.shtml|Hardware Daily] and [link|http://www.simplydv.co.uk/advc100.html|SimplyDV] in the UK.

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Thanks for the correction

Some additions of my own:

- I have a Dazzle bridge and it works quite well. (I use it to dub off VHS tapes into clips.)

- For video, you really should use Firewire. But recent Macs have that built in so that shouldn't be a problem. Don't know about USB 2.0 for DV, though.

- Agree about the hardware intensive nature of video editing. I'm not sure what the minimum CPU/RAM/HD is for decent results.

- Didn't know about digital 8mm. I've never owned a camcorder, though, so it's not surprising. Thanks for the informative nit.

Tom Sinclair
"Subverting Young Minds Since 03/13/2000"

Dickens, as you know, never got round to starting his home page.
-- (Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett)
New Hope I'm not too late...
NO DAZZLE! Cheap POS... Get a Formac Studio. I have one and it works well. Sony makes an analog to digital converter as well... I have been using the formac to transfer all of my analog hi8 movies to the Mac and then using iMovie (and Final Cut Pro) to edit out the "crap".

I'm sorry I didn't jump into this thread sooner, but my wife and I are expecting a little screamer any day now and I haven't had a chance to browse IWETHEY...

Lincoln, if you want to take this offline, I can provide you with an email address, as I had the same situation about a year ago. I tried about four different devices on the PC (including a Dazzle that came with a "multimedia" Dell. You don't want to go there.
Just a few thoughts,

Screamer

"I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..."

P. Townshend

"Nietzsche has an S in it"
Celina Jones
New How do I contact you?
Amazingly enough, this past Sunday the newspaper ads had Walgreens, in their photo section, printing a coupon for transferring video to DVD for $30 + tax.

Granted, the amount of tapes I have multiplied by $30 comes close to a new G4 iMac, but not having to deal with it at all is VERY appealing. On the negative side, I'd have to make & send them a copy since I don't want to risk their damaging or even losing any of my tapes. Doing it myself would negate that worry. However, trying to find the time to do this would be tough right now.

Use this Yahoo email account address to reach me:
[golf][underscore][lover44][at][yahoo.com]
lincoln
"Four score and seven years ago, I had a better sig"
Expand Edited by lincoln April 9, 2002, 11:26:42 PM EDT
New Sent you an email about 3 hours ago...
let me know if you received or not... Just had a bit of fun with another analog to digital dilemna today... Making my four track Teac work on either a Mac or PC... Found that Peak LE on the Mac (system 9 only folks) is the way to go. Couldn't even get Windoze XP to continually recognize my Turtle Beach sound card... One more reason to downgrade... You'd think that with all the old VHS tapes, casette tapes, Super 8 movies, etc... laying around, that it would be a huge priority to make it easy to transfer these analog "files" to digital ones... Sadly, it has not been my experience.

Dan
Just a few thoughts,

Screamer

"I'll tip my hat to the new constitution, take a bow for the new revolution, smile and grin at the change all around, pick up my guitar and play, just like yesterday..."

P. Townshend

"Nietzsche has an S in it"
Celina Jones
New DVD burning.
Your technology columnist somehow omitted a rather curious fact: DVD-R exists and is, AFAIK, a stable standard. Both of the PC burners, as well as the Apple drive, should be capable of burning an ordinary DVD-R disc. DVR-R is also more likely to be playable in DVD players. However, like CD-R, it is a write-once solution. :-) But reading between the lines, DVD-RAM and DVD+RW aren't really the solution you're looking for.

You didn't really indicate what your existing computer was, either.

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New Don't own any Apple products
Just running a PII 400 with 256 Meg RAM and two 20 Gig hard drives. Based upon Mr. Coates' response, I'm more than willing to consider getting an iMac for this specific situation, since I'd basically need to a whole new Windows machine to do this job; at least I'd be getting something that would do the job. Naturally, I haven't run this past the wife yet.

But considering the cost of taking these tapes to some type of conversion service, letting them have them for weeks at a time, paying who-knows-what for an hourly rate, I think it's pretty much a break-even when compared to buying an iMac and doing it myself. At least I wouldn't have to worry about tapes getting lost and having to blame someone else...!
lincoln
"Four score and seven years ago, I had a better sig"
New Re: DVD burning.
DVD-R...That is EXACTLY the thingie I'm looking for!!!!

Now, if Google comes through, I can get some reviews on drives, look into getting "Studio 7" by Pinnacle Software, and have a go at it...

OR I could just be smart right off the bat and get a G4 iMac with the SuperDrive already built in.

(Still gotta figure out how to run the cost past the "wife roadblock!)
lincoln
"Four score and seven years ago, I had a better sig"
New *grin*
I can guess why DVD-R has been de-emphasised: the great unwashed have trouble coming to terms with Wrote Once media.

Little story: I burnt a CD for my sister with some pictures on it for her to get them to the computer lab where she is doing her Graphic Design course (they're Macs and we both have PCs). The concept that "once it's written, that's it!" took some explaining. Multi-session to the rescue? Well, yes, except that you have to make the first session multi-session, too. D'oh! She discovered the Macs also have Zip drives so I unearthed a Zip disk for her. This also gives her the advantage that she can bring work home.

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New How to convince...
Are you within reasonable distance of one of the Apple stores? Maybe a demo of how you could create a DVD in ten minutes might help to sway opinion. Rock up there with some footage on the camera and they'd probably let you do it on the spot. 'Specially if there's a sale in it for them :)
On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
New Praise from "Dr. Mac"
[link|http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/tech/weekly/1321849|Dr Mac]

March 28, 2002, 10:20PM

DR. MAC
Moviemaking on iMac shows PCs need to catch up
By BOB LEVITUS
Copyright 2002 Houston Chronicle
I have had the new top-of-the-line iMac for almost a month. Of course I loved it. I'm a Mac guy, and there's nothing about it not to love.

Even the inconvenience of the ports being on the back of the snow-globe base didn't bother me (other reviewers have complained about it, but I think it's a nonissue). It's cool to look at, blazingly fast, nearly silent in spite of its internal fan, and has a 15-inch flat-panel display that's as sharp, bright and vivid as any I've seen. And the stainless steel arm, which lets you adjust the screen's height, depth and angle with one finger, is perhaps the slickest piece of industrial design magic ever seen in a personal computer.

There is no doubt in my mind this is the best (and best-looking), fastest, most capable, iMac of all time, as well as the best iMac value ever. This computer is so fine that even Windows users lust for them.

Now allow me to reintroduce my neighbor, Dave (not his real name), whom you first met in my Sept. 22, 2000, column.

When my neighbor saw my iMovies, he immediately ordered a board and software that he said would let him do that on his PC. I told him he should get a Mac. A month ago I asked him how his moviemaking was coming. He looked properly chagrined as he said, "I haven't figured out how to make it work yet."

I lent him the new iMac for a few days and issued a challenge. Since he still, 18 months later, had not completed a single movie project on his Dell, I told him to try making a movie, an audio CD and a DVD on this iMac. And to make things interesting, I offered him no assistance or support -- I told him to look in Mac Help if he had questions.

Three days later I interviewed Dave.

On the first day, he unpacked the iMac, set it up in five minutes and burned two audio CDs with iTunes. He said he never needed to refer to Mac Help and that this whole project was "no problem whatsoever."

On the second day, he used iDVD to create a pair of slide shows using existing digital photos and burned his first DVD. I watched it later, and it didn't stink. In fact, most people would no doubt find it impressive. (I'm so jaded.)

On the third day, he borrowed my Canon ZR-25 camcorder and a tape of my son's last basketball game. I handed him the camera, manual and FireWire cable, and told him he was own his own.

By the end of the day he had imported raw footage into iMovie, edited it, added music and titles, then burned it onto a DVD with iDVD.

As I scribbled furiously, Dave's long-suffering wife added, "He swore less at the Mac than he does at his Dell."

Dave then said he had created more multimedia in three days with the iMac than he had in 18 months with his Dell. He only opened the Help file a couple of times. He concluded, "The hardest part was getting the iMac back in the box."

Before departing I asked if he'd consider a Mac next time. He replied: "Absolutely. In fact, if we hadn't wasted so much money trying to transform that Dell into a multimedia computer, I'd get one today."


It was music to my ears.


iMac G4. Price: $1,399-$1,899. Apple Computer. Cupertino, Calif. www.apple.com

Bob LeVitus is a leading authority on Mac OS and the author of 38 books, including Mac OS X For Dummies and Dr. Mac: The OS X Files, (or, How to Become a Mac OS X Power User).
lincoln
"Four score and seven years ago, I had a better sig"
     Connecting a camcorder - (lincoln) - (14)
         Forgot a point - (lincoln) - (7)
             Let me take a shot - (tjsinclair) - (6)
                 Another option - (altmann)
                 Nit - there are some digital 8 mm camcorders. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                     Thanks for the correction - (tjsinclair)
                     Hope I'm not too late... - (screamer) - (2)
                         How do I contact you? - (lincoln) - (1)
                             Sent you an email about 3 hours ago... - (screamer)
         DVD burning. - (static) - (4)
             Don't own any Apple products - (lincoln)
             Re: DVD burning. - (lincoln) - (2)
                 *grin* - (static)
                 How to convince... - (Meerkat)
         Praise from "Dr. Mac" - (lincoln)

Tastes just like chicken!
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