Just play pretend for a second.

Post #32,958 by wharris2 3/21/02 12:19:30 AM Reply	Just play pretend for a second. I'm a Christmas recipient of a nice, new Dell computer that doesn't work. Now, if this outsource firm (wherever it is, India, China, Mexico) speaks excellent english (even excellent British english, or even excellent Australian english) and is able to answer my questions intelligably and is able to get my problem resolved, that's just peachy. I ask you, what are the chances? I've spoken with professional programmers from India and these programmers are mostly unintelligible to me. I've written about that before. Perhaps that's me, with lack of practise. Perhaps that's my 50% hearing loss. Perhaps it's something in my brain. But that's certainly not normal helpline conditions. Beyond that, there is the ability to provide professional support, which (having been on a help desk at one time) is not an easy thing to do. Hell, I just tried to talk to a LensCrafters receptionist in Ohio and couldn't understand half the words she was saying. You've GOT to be kidding. Technical helpdesk support from India? "I didn't know you could drive to Europe." -- An eavesdropper, piping in when he overheard a conversation about someone who had driven to Montreal.
Post #32,961 by Meerkat 3/21/02 12:49:25 AM Reply	Every day at work I manage to converse perfectly well with an Indian gentleman who sits at the desk in front of mine. I don't mean to induce shock or surprise, but I've even managed to communicate with him over the phone. Sit down, because this may induce dizziness. We even discuss technical issues. Successfully. How different would it be if he phoned me from India? A few milliseconds different, that's about it. Technical helpdesk support from India? Absolutely. Get over it. On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #32,974 by imric 3/21/02 6:10:15 AM Reply	Ya know what? I live in an area with a high percentage of Indian immigrants. I talk to multiple different individuals every day. News Flash! It can be very difficult to understand the OFTEN heavily accented English that most of these immigrants USUALLY (not always) use here. I very often have to ask for them to repeat themselves. It would be a nightmare if most of these individuals got into helpdesk positions. Disaster for them, who wouldn't be able to resolve problems efficiently due to communication problems, disaster for the company they would represent, and disaster for the customer seeking support. Now. Call me a racist for acknowledging facts. Poor English can be very detrimental sometimes, and my experience points out the FACT that most Indian immigrants (with the caveat: at least here in Edison & Iselin) are not particularly fluent in English. I cannot think that this would be better 'from India' - unless the firm were to restrict employess to those fluent in English. I don't think it's that common; if it is, then there is a gigantic statistical slew, here. Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
Post #32,979 by Silverlock 3/21/02 10:02:05 AM Reply	This is not new. Debt collectors, polling firms, hundreds of retail customer service agencies. All with outsourcing to India. Been going on for at least 5 years. Saw a news show on this and they stressed the pronounciation classes that the agents had to pass before taking any calls. With this much manure around, there must be a pony somewhere.
Post #32,995 by pwhysall 3/21/02 11:34:26 AM Reply	Re: Ya know what? Ya know what's worse? It's hard to understand the often heavily accented English that Southern Americans speak. Y'all sound like Boomhauer (sp?) from "King Of The Hill". Yeah, stereotypes. Ain't they grand? Peter Shill For Hire [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal]
Post #32,998 by Andrew Grygus 3/21/02 11:45:23 AM Reply	And elsewhere . . One place I worked many years ago employed a Scot. Don't remember his name (everyone called him "Scotty"). He generally had to repeat even simple sentences two or three times for comprehension. He told me, though, that wasn't the most painful part - that was calling home and having the folks say, "What's wrong with you? You talk like a damned Yank!". [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #33,000 by tonytib 3/21/02 11:47:51 AM Reply	And it's even harder to understand many from England
Post #33,010 by marlowe 3/21/02 12:41:52 PM Reply	But the Lancastrians are worth the effort. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Truth is that which is the case. Accept no substitutes. If competence is considered "hubris" then may I and my country always be as "arrogant" as we can possibly manage.
Post #33,035 by imric 3/21/02 4:28:21 PM 3/21/02 8:12:10 PM Reply	I agree. And a nastier indictment of English Language education in the US would be difficult to find... Oh, wait. Ebonics. bonk self And - as far as stereotypes, there are Indian immigrants here I have no problem communicating with. It's just that most of the immigrants that I encounter (roughly 1/4 the population in this area, BTW) are difficult to understand. I guess that must be wrong, and the majority speak with crystal clarity and in fluent English, because it's a stereotype, right? My skepticism comes from experience here, but I guess that most who speak fluent and easy-to-understand English must stay in India, rather than emigrate to English speaking countries (or at least to this part of NJ! grin). THAT rationale might preserve political correctness, and make Indians ideal help-desk-fodder. Now, India is a huge country; there are probably a large number there with the English skills to pull off hellpdesk duty for English speakers... so such an enterprise as outlined in the article might work fine - until it becomes common (rather than simply accepted) practice. In the 'States, helpdesk is often the lowest of low-budget concerns - it's a cost center rather than a profit center, and therefore the among the first budgets to be cut in any enterprise. How long, do you suppose, would US companies using such an outsourcing technique insist on clear-speaking/fluent-in-English employees? After all, with a skill in demand, the more fluent would cost more to employ, no? (sorry Peter - on reading this over, it's got a harsher tone than I intended... I should probably refrain from posting after a 2 hour commute) Imric's Tips for Living Paranoia Is a Survival Trait Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised... Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win. Edited by imric March 21, 2002, 08:12:10 PM EST Expand All History
Post #33,002 by wharris2 3/21/02 11:49:54 AM Reply	I'm not saying there aren't. What I am saying is that in my experience, foreign nationals without immersive exposure to English tend to speak heavily accented, many times to the point of unintelligibility, English. Perhaps your Indian colleague has a gift for languages or actually has been immersed in an English-speaking environment long enough to "lose" much of his accent. Perhaps as he was learning English he had a teacher who was particularly attentive and/or knowledgable about how English is spoken and sounds. I don't know. I'm happy that you find working and communicating with him easy. I worked a help desk at one time (small company with sophisticated software, not a lot of customers - maybe 20 or 30 - but priced high enough and with maintenance fees for support), and always dreaded calls from one particular site. The guy was from Malaysia and spoke so thickly accented that it was very hard to understand. Time went by, and his enunciation improved. Eventually, the company made him an offer and he came to work for us. More time passed, the company president retired, and he himself became the president of the company. By that time, he still had an accent but while it was noticable it was no worse than, say, most British English speakers. One of the guys up the command chain from me is from Asia (Korea, I think); he also speaks with a slight but noticable accent. But he's perfectly understandable. So don't think I'm painting all people from Asia or any other part of the world with a "I can't understand the hell what they're saying" brush. Some, through schooling, immersive language training, or some other means, speak English very well. It's just that I am somewhat less than confident Dell or whatever company they hire will take the care to ensure that their offshore help desks will be so - after all, this is a cost cutting measure, and the more costs cut, the better. "I didn't know you could drive to Europe." -- An eavesdropper, piping in when he overheard a conversation about someone who had driven to Montreal.

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