I always have to laugh...

Post #29,740 by admin 2/26/02 8:51:30 AM Reply	I always have to laugh... ... when I see people so seriously (and quickly) condemning anyone with a MS opinion as a shill. :-) Come on, people, not everything is a conspiracy. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #29,754 by ben_tilly 2/26/02 10:17:06 AM Reply	Well if Squidley is not... then I would expect to see a few posts occasionally in some other forum on some other topic. Cheers, Ben
Post #29,763 by Squidley 2/26/02 10:45:34 AM Reply	Re: Well if Squidley is not... then I would expect to see a few posts occasionally in some other forum on some other topic. Nah. Although I have some very strong opinions about politics, current events, the war on terrorism, etc., I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough in these areas to comment. I've thought about commenting anyway\ufffd- you know, a few psychotic rants here, a few accusations of paid participation there\ufffd- but decided that would make me look too much like an immature ignoramus :-)
Post #29,774 by CRConrad 2/26/02 11:57:16 AM Reply	And what makes you think you look any different here?
Post #29,810 by Squidley 2/26/02 1:38:10 PM Reply	Why, your presence, of course! When the nutcases send in their loudest and dumbest, you know they're in trouble :-)
Post #29,838 by jake123 2/26/02 2:43:39 PM Reply	I guess MSFT is expecting to lose, then...
Post #29,845 by Squidley 2/26/02 2:56:14 PM Reply	Sure! Just like they always do :-)
Post #29,862 by Ashton 2/26/02 3:45:46 PM Reply	It ain't over til Judge K-K sings. And I hope she's checking out the Thesaurus for some suitable legalese synonyms for.. slimy, unprincipled, sociopathic greed. And practicing her scales - especially that high C# which clashes with any melody (like the Other one). Meanwhile.. tell us again about the misunderstood, magnanimous just-plain-folks what gave you yer epaulets and sent you out on a suicide mission. Ashton just-plain-folk too. Need a couple bucks for rehab? A little sodium pentothal, perhaps?
Post #29,871 by Squidley 2/26/02 4:07:31 PM Reply	Re: It ain't over til Judge K-K sings. Meanwhile.. tell us again about the misunderstood, magnanimous just-plain-folks what gave you yer epaulets and sent you out on a suicide mission. Ah, it's not so bad. Wading through this cesspool is a dirty job, but it's hardly suicide :-)
Post #29,912 by Ashton 2/26/02 7:18:48 PM Reply	My what colorful intellekchul epithets you have Are these suggested by the Astroturf manual - or just as you remember them from grammar school? So it's cut & dried then.. all those e-mails, all those court proceedings - were no real reflection of the mindsets, the dialogue and actions of your Alma Pater. It's all been 10+ years of a horrible misunderstanding, a folie a milliones - all uniformly Wrong about the facts, the motives, the activities and - the consequences for any semblance of 'competition' in the industry. Let me guess: I'll bet you'll stake your reputation! upon this all having been a massive error, falsified testimony by envious competitors and the sour grapes badmouthing of legions of folks too stupid to recognize - the greatest software inna world - industriously crafted by a quite ethical corporation. Those threats to the OEMs, the preloading or ya get zippo, the DRDOS (settled with nondisclosure), Stacker, etc. - just Never Happened\ufffd Izzat it, close enough? How could we have been so blind? Ashton never mind.
Post #29,931 by Andrew Grygus 2/26/02 11:02:27 PM Reply	Yes, but over at Petrele's VarLinux forum . . . . we've got a real UberShill, [link\|http://www.varlinux.org/article.php?sid=755&mode=&order=0&thold=0\|Alex Tabarrok], who, through his The Independent Institute, has collected well over a quarter of a million $$ for his shilling - a shill so powerful he posts under his own name (and publishes "independently researched" books by members of Microsoft's defense team). [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #30,115 by Ashton 2/28/02 1:43:13 AM Reply	Re: Yes, but over at Petrele(y)'s VarLinux forum . . {sigh} Well, he can't be a First String Shill.. After dropping his boilerplate - he faded as the ripostes went for the jugular. The usual tactic is to insert a non-sequitur, like ..but what about dropping the 'tieing' issue? (Kinda like the famous guy who'd show up at Nixon rallies with his sign, What About the Hughes Loan? IIRC that was Dick Tuck.) Imagine what it would be like to be an intelligent (and throw in too, 'informed'?) person.. taking money to go around and try nothing less than fucking.. dissembling - overt lying via omission, obfuscation and patently false semantic tricks. How is it that Murican bizness seems to turn out such critters wholesale? daleross comes to mind, Mr. If it's legal it's ethical Hisself. Screw it. The execrable ones are the unimaginitive clones - saw how M$ did it and.. adapted. 'Whore' is an insult to honorable sex-workers who keep unstable assholes from running amok, hurting innocents - 'cause no one Would screw them (except for cash). That's not even dishonorable. Lying creeps are. Ashton
Post #29,874 by jake123 2/26/02 4:13:03 PM Reply	I think they're going to lose badly this time. It's pretty simple, really. They tried to tell the judge what she was and was not qualified to comment on. They tried the same stunt with the other guy too... which didn't work out too well for them. Simply put, you don't get what you want out of the justice system by trying to tell the judge they're not allowed to do something, esp. when it clearly is within her purview... Finally, you're forgetting that they've already lost... they're guilty. The only question is the punishment. Personally, I think that KK is going to rip Ashcroft's DoJ a new one for the anemic agreement they came up with. There's one other issue to consider as well... the marketplace. Between 09/11 and Enron, people are feeling a lot less tolerant of the kinds of shenanigans that MSFT (and many others) have been getting up to over the last fifteen years or so. I think you (and the marketing mavens at MSFT) are about to get very surprised by the paradigm shift that's occurring right now in the zeitgeist of the marketplace. While we're on the subject... you might to well to consider the damage that MSFT and its behaviour has done to US competitiveness in the global marketplace. A lot of countries are trying very hard to get away from MSFT, because they don't trust them and they don't trust their products. The free ride that MSFT seems to be getting from the regime (not the justice system, the regime) only emphasizes those trust issues in their minds... and extends those trust issues to the US as a whole. -- ---------------------------------------------------------- * Jack Troughton jake at jakesplace.dhs.org * * [link\|http://jakesplace.dhs.org\|[link\|http://jakesplace.dhs.org\|http://jakesplace.dhs.org]] [link\|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org\|[link\|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org\|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org]] * * Montr\ufffdal PQ Canada [link\|news://jakesplace.dhs.org\|news://jakesplace.dhs.org] * ----------------------------------------------------------
Post #29,879 by wharris2 2/26/02 4:28:51 PM Reply	I think you're way optimistic While she may remand the remedies back to the Justice Department for reconsideration, I think they'll just roll over again. I don't think the nine dissenting states will be enough to tilt the balance. Where each demon is slain, more hate is raised, yet hate unchecked also multiplies. - L. E. Modesitt
Post #29,919 by jake123 2/26/02 8:55:13 PM Reply	I don't. Personally, I think she's going to slap them silly. The judiciary is one of the three branches, and has a responsibility to reign in the other two when they don't do their job properly. I think that this is one of those times... and, if I read the signs aright, I think that the judiciary is beginning to think that this is one of those times. The RIAA just got slapped, Enron is there as an object example of what will be coming much more often if the slapping doesn't start (let's face it, while their and their accountant's actions are hardly ethical, moral, nor even necessarily legal, they're depressingly common), and the rot appears to be spreading pretty quickly... while we haven't heard a lot about it, there are some other big bankruptcies going on right now, all with the whiff of crooked accounting attached to them. Here's another factor to consider: K-K ordered them to turn their source over, and there hasn't been a peep from anyone on the subject, least of all MSFT. This would seem to imply that they just handed it over. A lot of the posturing seems to be gone from them. If they've succeeded in convincing her that they're conmen and scam artists (and I can think of a few stunts they've pulled over the last few months that would tend to that interpretation of their characters), she has the power to crush them... esp. if she believes that the DoJ isn't going to do it... and considering some of the tales about the settlement (back room negotiation between the one political guy on the team and MSFT, other DoJ lawyers excluded, and sudden capitulation) she may be coming around to believing just that. You gotta read between the lines with judges, esp. careful ones... and K-K comes across as a careful one. However, if you read judge speak, she's already slapped them around severely a few times... I bet their lawyers are beginning to feel a little bruised, and that some of the top executives are beginning to feel a little scared. Their only problem is... they can't afford to show that fear, which is leading them into further problems. I mean, how do you think K-K is going to take the news that MSFT is using the settlement as a way of pushing their way into their customer's IP? Do you think that she's going to believe that they've figured out that they need to behave like a good monopoly now? -- ---------------------------------------------------------- * Jack Troughton jake at jakesplace.dhs.org * * [link\|http://jakesplace.dhs.org\|[link\|http://jakesplace.dhs.org\|http://jakesplace.dhs.org]] [link\|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org\|[link\|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org\|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org]] * * Montr\ufffdal PQ Canada [link\|news://jakesplace.dhs.org\|news://jakesplace.dhs.org] * ----------------------------------------------------------
Post #29,939 by wharris2 2/27/02 3:44:39 AM Reply	Gates, Ballmer scared? By their actions, you shall know them. They aren't scared at all, they're still going full-tilt. Even using the terms of the proposed settlement to put the squeeze on OEM's (what a surprise). Not the actions of a company in fear of anything. Where each demon is slain, more hate is raised, yet hate unchecked also multiplies. - L. E. Modesitt
Post #29,960 by jake123 2/27/02 10:40:12 AM Reply	Yeah... you're right. Those two are too dumb to be scared. In all seriousness... I think that those actions are going to turn out to be the last gasps of a dying yet still powerful entity. Have you heard about the new lawsuit? I read that they're being sued by a large group of their customer base... HP, Compaq, et. al. The only big player not in on it is Dell (gee, I wonder why). Sony is coming after them too... I suspect that MSFT may find that Sony is something beyond their bullying power... Sony has other resources; they're not a one-trick pony with a sole supplier problem like the big US OEMs. Nope... the vultures are circling, because they are all intelligent enough to see the signs. They're just waiting for K-K to deliver the coup-de-grace before moving in to tear at the carcass... -- ---------------------------------------------------------- * Jack Troughton jake at jakesplace.dhs.org * * [link\|http://jakesplace.dhs.org\|[link\|http://jakesplace.dhs.org\|http://jakesplace.dhs.org]] [link\|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org\|[link\|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org\|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org]] * * Montr\ufffdal PQ Canada [link\|news://jakesplace.dhs.org\|news://jakesplace.dhs.org] * ----------------------------------------------------------

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