Post #293,077
9/17/07 9:54:01 PM
9/17/07 9:56:02 PM
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Sorry
having watched your government at work over the last week or two, humour from Americans is feeling a little hard to take, esp. in relation to how Americans see the rest of the world.
Let me put it this way; best conservative estimates say that your country has killed (directly or indirectly) at least 200 people for every person killed in 9/11, and less conservative (but by no means outlandish) estimates range up to app. 350. This doesn't even get into the issues of people that your country has disappeared and tortured. And yet, out of all those people kidnapped, tortured, and murdered, you've only managed to get prolly somewhere between five or ten of the people who were actually involved in planning the attacks.
Not only that, but your countrymen don't seem to be too concerned about all those innocent people you've murdered. So yeah, when it comes to the "funny foreigner" type joke, those of us who are foreigners to the US aren't laughing anymore, because it's really clear that the US would just as soon kill us if it suited their convenience.
Edit: think of it as part of the continuing fallout from the insanity that's gripped your country. The US is well past Pinochet level and is hanging out with the genocidists in Rwanda now. How long before you guys get down to hang out with Pol Pot and other like-minded?
Edited by jake123
Sept. 17, 2007, 09:56:02 PM EDT
Sorry
having watched your government at work over the last week or two, humour from Americans is feeling a little hard to take, esp. in relation to how Americans see the rest of the world.
Let me put it this way; best conservative estimates say that your country has killed (directly or indirectly) at least 200 people for every person killed in 9/11, and less conservative (but by no means outlandish) estimates range up to app. 350. This doesn't even get into the issues of people that your country has disappeared and tortured. And yet, out of all those people kidnapped, tortured, and murdered, you've only managed to get prolly somewhere between five or ten of the people who were actually involved in planning the attacks.
Not only that, but your countrymen don't seem to be too concerned about all those innocent people you've murdered. So yeah, when it comes to the "funny foreigner" type joke, those of us who are foreigners to the US aren't laughing anymore, because it's really clear that the US would just as soon kill us if it suited their convenience.
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Post #293,079
9/17/07 10:03:19 PM
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Pretty broad brush there, Jake. :-(
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Post #293,080
9/17/07 10:09:50 PM
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Be careful not to confuse citizens with government
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Post #293,091
9/18/07 12:40:08 AM
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I didn't vote for the sorry bastard
I don't support the slaughter of innocents
I didn't mean to offend anyone.
Jesus Christ on a skateboard. I'm sick and tired of attacks being made for minor reasons.
get a life, the lot of you.
End of line
Smile,
Amy
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Post #293,125
9/18/07 11:59:53 AM
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Yeah, it's a broad brush. And I thought citizens got the
government they deserved. Still, I watched the proceedings last week with Petraeus and Congress, and it looks like you guys are going to stay on the road you're on. Furthermore, to judge by your media portrayal of what's going on, Everything's OK.
Pinochet killed thousands. In Rwanda, they killed hundreds of thousands, which is where your country is on the moral ladder right now. How long before you guys find yourself down even more... the US is on track to having killed a million by the end of the decade, if not earlier.
I like you guys, and I certainly don't think there are any war criminals on the board (well, except maybe for Marlowe, but my take on him is he's part of the Fighting 101st Keyboardists). But the touchiness to certain things even from friends should tell you something about how very very bad things are right now.
They're really bad.
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Post #293,126
9/18/07 12:29:00 PM
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<high horse action=climb-up>
You're lumping too many groups together, and too many individuals in those groups.
Who is "you guys"? Bush? The major politcal parties? Every single American?
Is it fair to blame Robert Mugabe's actions on [link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/13/AR2007031301730.html|Morgan Tsvangirai]? I don't think so. Don't lump everyone together.
The US is very divided politically. That's why little is changing in Congress - the opposition to Bush doesn't yet have the votes necessary to force a change in policy. But things are designed to move slowly in Congress because a measure of stability in government is generally a good thing. There are counter-examples, of course (see Zimbabwe).
All indications are that the Democrats are going to increase their strength in Washington in 2008 and at that point you'll start to see significant changes in US foreign (and domestic) policy.
I'm willing to bet there are many more US citizens who are upset with the Bush Administration than there are Canadians (in total). ;-)
And while it may be true that that hundreds of thousands (or more) have died as a result of Bush's actions (and Congress's inaction), the US military has also helped save large numbers as well (see, e.g., [link|http://www.pacom.mil/special/0412asia/index.shtml|Tsunami assistance] at the US Pacific Command.
The USA isn't an evil monolith.
</high horse>
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #293,163
9/19/07 3:17:07 AM
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Sorry, but when discussing the conduct of nation-states...
...it certainly seems to me that one of the most relevant groupings of people would be the group of all citizens of each nation-state. That's just elementary logic.
As for not "lump[ing] everyone together", YTF *not*? Sure, you may not all *be* Dick Cheney -- but then, the rest of you have still let him carry on unfettered for about four or five (and at the very least least three!) years longer than you should have. You don't wanna take the blame for that, you should have had a revolution (or at the very least least, gotten your shit together in the '04 election!) and got rid of him.
(Yes, I mean that at least semi-seriously: By not doing so [either way], you showed that the vaunted "stability in government" of the United States of Consumerism was more important to you than those "hundreds of thousands [or at the very least least tens of thousands] of lives" that he's squandered. Everyone in the world doesn't HAVE to agree you made the right judgment there, do they?)
So, sorry, but now that you've got off your high horse, you better stay the fuck down off it.
'Coz you were wrong, and Jake was right.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
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Post #293,168
9/19/07 7:09:01 AM
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Your implications and sweeping generalizations...
Are a big pile of steaming BULLSHIT.
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Post #293,170
9/19/07 7:59:31 AM
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Or more simply,
That prescribed military response, "No excuse. Sir!"
when the Pvt. has been caught doing something stupid.
Yes - we Have "no excuse"..
(borrowing from Carousel, though that was in ref to having chosen as a swain - a real looser..)
"..and all the rest is talk."
(We're always finding excuses.. for the slavery, then for the lynchings - later on for the 'Colored Only' nonpersonhood: all while lecturing the world about 'democracy' and celebrating our Wonderfulness.)
Now: we have a few thousand military families and their maimed/dead sacrificial cannon fodder - bearing directly: the. only. actual. burdens yet felt in these parts - all for a tacit National tolerance of a cabal of deranged lying zealots.
This, while each day new (and increasingly more complete) *visual* records of the exact nature of the lies and their pattern come to light. That evidence of corruption has reached at least K-2 height - heading for Everest, I guess. No matter though, because
Still: the vast majority Say/Do NOTHING to atone for their all-along complicity-of-dunces.
(We may have become too dumb to live sanely, but we always hone to perfection our killing machines - it has become our first priority. Notice the frenzied celebration of the Shockn'Awe phase, seen on the \ufffdFox clips from the war run-up. That priority is way before say, health care - even for just *all* of "the little Murican cheeldrun". About a fifth of those here - get nada, zippo. Priorities.)
Snipe away. You can't possibly be 'hard' enough.
This is now into the FIFTH YEAR of this corrupt invasion / perpetual carnage and still.. the sheep graze, their kiddies live for collecting the Logo/clothes at the malls - and the rest are zoned out with essential distractions: anything; any noise, game to prevent Noticing what we have become.
\ufffd The most concise-yet history I've seen of the long-term prevarications and methodology of all our little wars - showed on a local PBS station last night:
[link|http://www.normansolomon.com/norman_solomon/2007/05/war_made_easy_p.html| War Made Easy]. Also [link|http://www.warmadeeasy.com/|http://www.warmadeeasy.com/]
It compares the Same-old root-propaganda employed from Tonkin Gulf on through today's morass - with familiar clips of the perps weaving their magic BS wands. And the consumers going about their grazing. Just like right now.
(I Saw - Johnson's Tonkin speech.. and on back to the McCarthyism which never actually goes away among our chicken-hawks - plus most of the early clips shown. I don't really need someone's "interpretation" of the milieu.) This flic could never be seen on a commercial channel here. Bad for bizne$$.
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Post #293,171
9/19/07 8:08:43 AM
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Funny, I never would have taken you for a "loyal Bushie".
[link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010920-8.html|"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."]
Lumping all Americans together is a page from the same playbook.
Oh well.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #293,175
9/19/07 8:42:38 AM
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Er, wrong.
Rail at the half that actually did vote for him, not the half that didn't.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #293,181
9/19/07 9:28:01 AM
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Who pissed in your cornflakes? (new thread)
Created as new thread #293180 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=293180|Who pissed in your cornflakes?]
Smile,
Amy
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