Laptop.

:-)

You gave a good explanation of how it's supposed to work. But it often doesn't work that way in practice, especially on popular items.

If I decide I'm willing to spend $50 for a Confabulator 3000, I probably would be willing to spend $50.51. That's why picking a "Maximum Bid" is difficult.

There are also comfort levels that impact sniping. You need to estimate how close you can come to the end time before placing your bid. If you've got a fast, low latency, connection you'll be able to outsnipe others on dialup or cans-and-string. If you have a large enough bid, of course.

"But you just proved my point!" No. Because without sniping software, I have to be available to place my bid at an appropriate time. Bidding, it seems to me, generally goes higher on an item that has lots of early bids than on an item that doesn't. To pay the minimum, it generally is beneficial to bid as late as possible. The group psychology drives the price and I want to pay the minimum, not just less than my maximum.

(And yes, that's just my impression.)

So, IMO, it's not just "Set your max bid and be done with it". Looking at the recent eBay history of P7120d laptop sales shows they've gone for between $910 and $1270. There are configuration differences between them (color, optical drive, HD, RAM). My guess is that the majority of the winners used sniping software.

Your mileage obviously varies.

Cheers,
Scott.

Don't think too hard about what everyone else is willing to pay. Are you willing to pay $51.50, or do you really mean you're willing to pay $52.00? Don't forget that if I really want or need an item, I budget a bit more than the thing is worth in order to secure it.

At the end of the day, items go for what people are prepared to pay. Popular items go for more than unpopular items of a similar type. You do not need sniping software. You only need sniping software if you are unable to decide how much you are willing to pay for an item.

It's really, really simple. Do your valuation for yourself, not for others - after all, it's your money you're spending, not theirs. Don't go thinking "if I bid late I'll get a bargain" because if one of the other bidders is like me, you won't; your sniping software will simply outbid me by the bid increment and you'll end up paying pretty much what you would have paid had you simply placed your maximum bid (remember, eBay autobids in increments up to your maximum bid, not your whole maximum bid immediately) but you've gone through a whole load of unnecessary sweat and bother.

eBay is exactly "set your max bid and be done with it". Note that that's not "set your max bid at the beginning of the auction", though; as I said, I tend to bid towards the end of an auction.

Post #283,979 by Another Scott 5/5/07 10:36:49 AM Reply	Laptop. :-) You gave a good explanation of how it's supposed to work. But it often doesn't work that way in practice, especially on popular items. If I decide I'm willing to spend $50 for a Confabulator 3000, I probably would be willing to spend $50.51. That's why picking a "Maximum Bid" is difficult. There are also comfort levels that impact sniping. You need to estimate how close you can come to the end time before placing your bid. If you've got a fast, low latency, connection you'll be able to outsnipe others on dialup or cans-and-string. If you have a large enough bid, of course. "But you just proved my point!" No. Because without sniping software, I have to be available to place my bid at an appropriate time. Bidding, it seems to me, generally goes higher on an item that has lots of early bids than on an item that doesn't. To pay the minimum, it generally is beneficial to bid as late as possible. The group psychology drives the price and I want to pay the minimum, not just less than my maximum. (And yes, that's just my impression.) So, IMO, it's not just "Set your max bid and be done with it". Looking at the recent eBay history of P7120d laptop sales shows they've gone for between $910 and $1270. There are configuration differences between them (color, optical drive, HD, RAM). My guess is that the majority of the winners used sniping software. Your mileage obviously varies. Cheers, Scott.
Post #283,981 by pwhysall 5/5/07 10:57:14 AM Reply	You misunderstand the system. Don't think too hard about what everyone else is willing to pay. Are you willing to pay $51.50, or do you really mean you're willing to pay $52.00? Don't forget that if I really want or need an item, I budget a bit more than the thing is worth in order to secure it. At the end of the day, items go for what people are prepared to pay. Popular items go for more than unpopular items of a similar type. You do not need sniping software. You only need sniping software if you are unable to decide how much you are willing to pay for an item. It's really, really simple. Do your valuation for yourself, not for others - after all, it's your money you're spending, not theirs. Don't go thinking "if I bid late I'll get a bargain" because if one of the other bidders is like me, you won't; your sniping software will simply outbid me by the bid increment and you'll end up paying pretty much what you would have paid had you simply placed your maximum bid (remember, eBay autobids in increments up to your maximum bid, not your whole maximum bid immediately) but you've gone through a whole load of unnecessary sweat and bother. eBay is exactly "set your max bid and be done with it". Note that that's not "set your max bid at the beginning of the auction", though; as I said, I tend to bid towards the end of an auction. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall\|A better terminal emulator] [image\|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png\|0\|Darwinia\|\|]
Post #283,987 by Another Scott 5/5/07 11:42:03 AM Reply	No, I understand it. Yes, the item will go to the person who has the largest bid in at the end of the auction. If I were able to reliably say that I will be willing to pay $52 and will not be willing to pay $52.01, then it wouldn't be an issue. In my case, the cutoff is rarely sharp. I find it frustrating to set a bid for $52.01 and having someone get it for $52.52 because I wasn't able to revise my bid before the end of the auction (due to time constraints). (Change $52.01 to X and $52.52 to X + 0.51 as desired.) [link\|http://www.jbidwatcher.com/\|JBidWatcher] is free (though I did send him some money). It works well and gives me a good feeling. I like being able to set up a bid-time and letting it go. I like knowing that I won't easily get sniped, and I won't drive up the price early, but I recognize that perhaps I'll be outbid. Perhaps faith in it is similar to faith in pink teapots hiding behind Jupiter, but it seems to work well for me. Cheers, Scott.
Post #284,016 by warmachine 5/5/07 4:03:24 PM Reply	These people are a different species An inability to quantify the value of an object to themselves indicates lack of awareness and control of their own feelings, beliefs and instincts. In other words, they aren't sentient beings. They lack one of characterstic abilities of Homo Sapiens. They must be a different species. Matthew Greet Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #284,019 by boxley 5/5/07 5:23:13 PM Reply	you have never been to a real auction have you? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #284,024 by pwhysall 5/5/07 9:06:33 PM Reply	I have. I agree with Matt. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall\|A better terminal emulator] [image\|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png\|0\|Darwinia\|\|]
Post #284,029 by warmachine 5/5/07 10:08:32 PM Reply	Yes, but so? Instead of buyers bidding till the price exceeds their limit, eBay does it for them in the same way non-virtual auctioneers can bid from a book till those stated limits are reached. Perhaps there are people who can't quantify their maximum bid price in non-virtual, as well as virtual, auctions. Their attendance in non-virtual auctions makes them true, sentient beings after all, how? Matthew Greet Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #284,031 by boxley 5/5/07 11:05:09 PM Reply	they made it there without killing themselves or others. They made a living to show up with the wherewithall to buy the item. You dont see orangutans at an auction. You see people paying extroidinary amounts well in excess of the value of the item in the excitement. Not everyone can remain calm and sensible when it comes to money. If they did the american economy would have tanked years ago. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #284,036 by CRConrad 5/6/07 2:15:57 AM Reply	ICBOxleianLRPD (new thread) Created as new thread #284035 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=284035\|ICBOxleianLRPD] [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #284,043 by warmachine 5/6/07 6:21:03 AM Reply	So, most Americans aren't truly sentient? Matthew Greet Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #284,051 by CRConrad 5/6/07 8:54:14 AM Reply	Wow, how practical! No need to... ...re-direct the thread or anything, it's already in the correct forum. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #284,053 by pwhysall 5/6/07 9:10:27 AM Reply	I notice... ...you don't dispute the point. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall\|A better terminal emulator] [image\|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png\|0\|Darwinia\|\|]
Post #284,062 by jake123 5/6/07 10:24:54 AM Reply	Why would he? It's not like he's an American or anything....
Post #284,069 by boxley 5/6/07 11:09:51 AM Reply	you live in UK so how fucking sentient does that make you 60+ million living under a microscope with a camera for every 14 people watching your every move, rather like an ant farm than a country. 10k years ago your ancestors were living in trees, painting themselves blue and gibbering at the romans who gave up trying to knock sentience into you and left. While I on the otherhand 10k years ago my ancestors were living in trees, painting themselves blue and gibbering at the romans who gave up trying to knock sentience into us and left. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #284,075 by pwhysall 5/6/07 11:36:48 AM Reply	Muahaha. Thanks for biting, Bill. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall\|A better terminal emulator] [image\|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png\|0\|Darwinia\|\|]
Post #284,256 by jb4 5/8/07 6:10:12 PM Reply	ICLRPD (new thread) Created as new thread #284255 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=284255\|ICLRPD] jb4 "It's hard for me, you know, living in this beautiful White House, to give you a firsthand assessment." — George W. Bush, when asked if he believed Iraq was in a state of civil war (Newsweek, 26 Feb 07)
Post #284,101 by inthane-chan 5/6/07 7:33:45 PM Reply	s/Americans/humans
Post #284,037 by CRConrad 5/6/07 2:26:42 AM Reply	I practically grew up at them. And, yes, the system Peter and Matt propound is the only sensible one... But people being people, I'd say it's the ones who don't get caught up in the excitement that aren't human. On the gripping hand, though, if I understand the incremental "up-to-my-max" bid system correctly, then I'd think that does pretty much exactly what "sniping software" does, so I don't get the need for that. On the hind foot, BTW, I wonder if those REALLY big players you (don't!) see at REALLY big auctions -- van Goghs going for 60 mill at Sotheby's, that sort of thing -- leave their bids over the phone not JUST to remain anonymous, but also partly precisely in order to insulate themselves from the auction excitement (having the auction clerks doing the job of e-Bay's incremental-bid software for them). Oh yeah, almost forgot: ObFuck off and die, asshole! [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]

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