Post #282,261
4/18/07 8:02:57 AM
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Linux-compatible modem question
My laptop (an HP dv5000z) has, of course a fucking WINMODEM integrated into it... which is, as far as I know, still useless for Linux users.
The Noreaster that hit the east coast took out my DSL, and instead of trying to get it fixed we're just switching to dialup internet access (we're moving in a month, so what's the point?)
Thing is, I sort of forgot how hard it is to get a real, honest-to-God modem these days.
Those of you in the know... is it a reasonably safe bet that external modems are not winmodems? That used to be the case a few years ago, but I don't know if it's true any more...
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #282,263
4/18/07 8:18:20 AM
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Actually they're not all useless.
find the chipset...a good portion are now supported
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #282,264
4/18/07 8:56:26 AM
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Alas...
... the most information I can get is "56k modem." :P
I'll have to look for a similar model on HP's site and hope they haven't bothered to switch out modem components for the last few years...
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #282,265
4/18/07 9:01:09 AM
4/19/07 8:19:28 AM
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Did you try...
[mike@oftheother ~]$ lspci | grep -i modem
0000:00:1e.3 Modem: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) AC'97 Modem Controller (rev 03)
That'll give you the chipset that the PCI system recognizes...
-YendorMike
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
Edited by Yendor
April 19, 2007, 08:19:28 AM EDT
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Post #282,315
4/18/07 11:43:25 PM
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cwbrenn do the lspci junk in Yendor's post.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
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Post #282,341
4/19/07 7:49:55 AM
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ok -- will try this evening
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #282,629
4/22/07 6:23:04 PM
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OK, this makes no sense at all whatsoever.
00:06.1 Modem: nVidia Corporation nForce3 Audio (rev a2)
... isn't that a sound card???
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #282,634
4/22/07 6:44:52 PM
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Re: OK, this makes no sense at all whatsoever.
OK, this makes no sense at all whatsoever.
00:06.1 Modem: nVidia Corporation nForce3 Audio (rev a2)
... isn't that a sound card??? nForce 3 is a chipset, must be from the motherboard of the system. It integrates a bunch of things, including sound and a modem. Jay
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Post #282,266
4/18/07 9:02:23 AM
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Are you sure you're up to this? :-)
I really don't want to put you off, but making an internal modem work in Linux can be a bit involved. I never did get the one in my D620 going. I can't even remember how I went about trying... but I do remember it was a bit of a rigmarole.
As far as external modems go, serial ones are usually real modems still. USB ones aren't necessarily.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
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-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. | · my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] · |
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Post #282,267
4/18/07 9:18:28 AM
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No. No, I'm really not. :)
Considering that I'd be doing this without internet access, I think getting an external serial modem is my best bet... :)
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #282,271
4/18/07 9:33:36 AM
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Net thread on this
[link|http://help.lockergnome.com/linux/HP-Pavilion-dv5000-modem-Ubuntu-10-ftopict419701.html|http://help.lockergn...topict419701.html]
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #282,582
4/21/07 9:08:58 PM
4/22/07 4:45:09 AM
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Thanks for a hint -
$20 is a fair price for stated purposes.. maybe - 'course with 3 machines - maybe one will be a Conexant clone; then it's 20/year if kernel upgraded. TANSTAAFL. Guess it's 14.4 free module-test time Later: no need.. scratch the HP notebook: Puppy ID'd it as a ESS 'Super Link' modem. ESS says: Q: Does ESS modem devices support Linux OS? <sic>
A: The DSP codes to handle modem communication on a Win Modem or host-based modem (HSP) is ESS intellectual property and is not available for Linux public code release. <sic\ufffd>
ESS only has limited support for Linux modem driver, mainly because Linux driver needs to be built differently based on its kernel version. For resource reason we can only work with OEM customers to provide Linux support based on requested build version. Please check with your hardware vendor for Linux support policy. Swell - proprietary AND.. every new kernel build needs driver rework. ..all those dead modems in all those notebooks - designed by Rumsfeld-Doze LLC, maybe?
Edited by Ashton
April 22, 2007, 04:45:09 AM EDT
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Post #282,596
4/22/07 8:51:55 AM
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This is not surprising.
I found a good explanation for such a policy a number of months ago when I was researching softmodem support in Linux. Basically, when you bought a modem that had a phone line on the business end and a serial port on the other, you were paying as much for the hardware as for the firmware to implement all that fancy encoding. Once modems started moving into internal slots and then into laptop motherboards, they could dispense with the firmware and the serial interface and just have a DSP and some memory for its program. And the program is now part of the driver which they can much more easily upgrade for bug fixes and features. And it makes the hardware cheaper. Much cheaper. (And they can make the DSP simpler if the driver does some of the work in the main CPU, too.)
Unfortunately, this DSP programming is just as proprietary and expensive as it was in the hardware version. In fact, it is so valuable they will not just 'give it away'. This is why many softmodems do not have a Linux driver, unless perhaps they can provide a pre-compiled module for you.
It also explains why there are few open-source implementations: programming these things is hard work and if you're good enough to be able to do it in your spare time, you could probably get a job with someone who makes them. Or you'd probably prefer to work on a higher profile project, like a wireless card or even a graphics card.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
|
-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. | · my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] · |
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Post #282,690
4/23/07 6:56:47 AM
4/23/07 6:58:51 AM
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Thanks - nicely legible explanation.
Where my lore fails is:
W.T.F. the concept "modular" - is not applicable to a one-size-fits-all [*nix build.]
Yes, the CPU needs to arrange some memory for running the {missing} modem-engine and
Yes, part of the operations of a chosen DSP may or may not be (also) delegated to the CPU == yan memory allocation for these ancillary calcs.
But.. reinvent those wheels for every kernel change?
So then, W.T.F. does "modular" really *mean* re *nix?
Yeah.. ignorance Kills.
(pToy)
Edited by Ashton
April 23, 2007, 06:58:51 AM EDT
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Post #282,708
4/23/07 9:33:29 AM
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It is an Intellectual Property concern.
If they're willing to compile it for your Linux kernel, they are obviously able to compile it for a range of kernels. But they still want you to get it from them, perhaps even in exchange for money. They just don't want you to hand it out to all at large. That's their right, whether or not they choose to exercise it. IOW, it's not a technical limitation.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
|
-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. | · my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] · |
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Post #282,580
4/21/07 7:56:57 PM
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Thou asketh - - - Modems... yeah.. RIGHT, (new thread)
Created as new thread #282579 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=282579|Thou asketh - - - Modems... yeah.. RIGHT,]
Pity when someone really Needs to get on-line via modem, though..
Dunno how Apple treats modems: not at all, anymore?)
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Post #282,630
4/22/07 6:28:51 PM
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I am now less pleased with my laptop...
Man, I had been such a fan of my HP laptop until this point.
I figured until I get my winmodem working I'd just hook up an old external modem, right? Well I can't -- my laptop DOESN'T HAVE A SINGLE FUCKING SERIAL CONNECTION. The closest I have is my printer port, which I can't figure out how to make behave as a com port, so that's useless.
A bunch of HP Engineers were sitting around a table saying "nobody uses serial ports any more. They use USB for EVERYTHING. Let's just take the fucker out."
Bastards... :D
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #282,632
4/22/07 6:36:13 PM
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There are ways...
Does it have a PCMCIA slot? If so, one of [link|http://www.bb-elec.com/product_family.asp?FamilyId=23|these] might do the trick for you. They're not cheap though.
You can even get an [link|http://www.bb-elec.com/product.asp?sku=DC-WSP-01-S&TrailType=Sub&Trail=26|802.11 to RS-232 serial converter]. It's even more, of course.
There are probably cheaper solutions out there. This is just to indicate there are many ways to skin this particular opossum.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #282,640
4/22/07 7:50:34 PM
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Holy crap!
For $100 I might be able to find an old PCMCIA modem-for-real-honest-to-God-modem on eBay.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #282,651
4/22/07 9:26:42 PM
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You can get USB-serial adapters.
They're not expensive. Something like AU$40 in the stores here. Linux knows how to talk to them.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
|
-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. | · my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] · |
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Post #282,818
4/23/07 7:29:11 PM
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Yep, that worked.
Funny, the only place around here I could get one was at Radio Shack... the guys at CompUSA swore up and down that they didn't exist. :P
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #282,823
4/23/07 7:39:28 PM
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there's a reason radio shack still exists.
-----------------------------------------
You can fire an at will employee for good cause or no cause, but not bad cause.
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Post #282,850
4/23/07 11:48:50 PM
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Idiots - that's where I bought the Belkin unit I mentioned
--
Steve
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu]
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Post #282,662
4/23/07 2:08:29 AM
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Either get a USB to RS-232 adapter or a USB modem
A quick google found [link|http://www.mwave.com/mwave/skusearch.hmx?SCriteria=AA34810&CartID=done&nextloc=| this adapter] for $10.50 and [link|http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=7&subcategory=40&product=266|this modem] for $50. I'm sure some searching around will get you what you need.
I had a belkin USB to RS232 adapter that 'just worked' with FC3 a while back, if that's any help.
--
Steve
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu]
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Post #282,680
4/23/07 6:01:09 AM
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I've yet to see a USB modem that isn't a winmodem...
... but those converters look promising. Off to Radio Shack!
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #282,685
4/23/07 6:29:17 AM
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parallel to serial converters have been around forever.
-----------------------------------------
You can fire an at will employee for good cause or no cause, but not bad cause.
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Post #282,693
4/23/07 7:55:56 AM
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Yeah, but the problem is
getting Linux to treat the parallel port as a serial port. I'm sure there's some file somewhere that I can edit that says "treat lp0 as ttyS0" or whatever, but the Google searches I've tried don't made any kind of sense at all to me...
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #282,694
4/23/07 7:59:37 AM
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(side note -- a sign that I am actually learning things...)
I was able to refer to lp0 and ttyS0 without having to look them up first. :)
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #282,709
4/23/07 9:34:53 AM
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We'll make a Linux wonk out of you yet! :-)
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
|
-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. | · my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] · |
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Post #282,713
4/23/07 10:04:30 AM
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I have a couple ...
USB to serial adapters. They work with Linux. I've used about 10 different models. Seems to only be about 2 or 3 chipsets. All worked good, last year (March or so) was the last time I used one though.
If you want, contact me off forums (e-mail down below) and we can arrange for shipping and handling.
Or you can goto $ELECTRONICS_RETAILER and buy one for similar costs.
Or you can go online and buy one of many from sources. Similar costs, again.
And, yes USB has taken over that realm. The only *real* serial ports these days, are ones on motherboards that can re-direct console output to the serial port. They work regularly, too.
Also, a couple of other cheery things I'd like to chat with you about.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
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Post #282,721
4/23/07 10:20:32 AM
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Ominous...
"Also, a couple of other cheery things I'd like to chat with you about."
That sounds kind of scary. :)
Email sent.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #282,727
4/23/07 10:43:54 AM
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Replied back...
If you don't wanna, I'll just have to KEEEEL YOU^W^Wbuck up and deal with it.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
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Post #282,733
4/23/07 11:23:29 AM
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Haven't had a chance to check my mail yet...
... my employer has a rotating "block yahoo!/don't block yahoo!" schedule that I haven't been able to figure out just yet.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #282,736
4/23/07 11:34:14 AM
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Oi! No probs.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
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