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New This is all pretty darned funny
The power of the media to kick up a story...since the former Pres replaced ALL 93.

But Bush replaces 9 (which he can do at his whim...they work for him)...we get a week or 2 of play and comments from all the candidates.

Wonder what next weeks "scandal" will be?
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New Stay tuned. Well that didn't take long. Perjury, anyone?
;-)

[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/14/AR2007031400519_pf.html|Washington Post]:

The conflict between documents released this week and previous administration statements is quickly becoming the central issue for lawmakers who are angry about the way Gonzales and his aides handled the coordinated firings of eight U.S. attorneys last year.

Democrats and Republicans are demanding to know whether Gonzales, Deputy Attorney General Paul J. McNulty and other Justice officials misled them in sworn testimony over the past two months. Yesterday, Republican Sen. John E. Sununu (N.H.) joined a handful of Democrats in calling on President Bush to fire his attorney general and longtime friend.

Gonzales has declined to address the apparent contradictions in detail, saying only that he was unaware of the specifics of the plan that Sampson was orchestrating.

The inconsistencies between Justice's positions and the documents are numerous. On Feb. 23, for example, a Justice legislative affairs aide wrote to Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) that the department "was not aware of Karl Rove playing any role in the decision to appoint Mr. Griffin." But internal Justice e-mails show that the "appointment was important" to Rove and was closely monitored by political aides in the White House.

Last week, senior Justice official William E. Moschella told the House Judiciary Committee that the White House was not consulted on the firings until the end of the process.

But the documents released this week show that the plan began more than two years ago at the White House counsel's office, which initially suggested firing all 93 U.S. attorneys. Gonzales rejected that idea, and Sampson wrote back in January 2006 that Justice and the White House should "work together to seek the replacement of a limited number of U.S. Attorneys."

Schumer argued this week that Sampson "may well have obstructed justice" by not disclosing his communications to Congress and other senior Justice officials, who had said for weeks that the White House had only a limited role in the removals. "There has been misleading statement after misleading statement, and these have been deliberately misleading statements," Schumer said yesterday.


The story goes on to note that prosecutions for lying to Congress are rare, but it does happen.

Cheers,
Scott.
Expand Edited by Another Scott March 14, 2007, 10:22:50 PM EDT
New So they should have replaced all 93 for the 2nd term
instead of just 9.

THEN it would be "normal"
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New No.
[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/11/LI2005041100879.html|Washington Post]:

[link|http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/nation/16897325.htm|McClatchy Newspapers] explains: "Mass firings of U.S. attorneys are fairly common when a new president takes office, but not in a second-term administration. Prosecutors are usually appointed for four-year terms, but they are usually allowed to stay on the job if the president who appointed them is re-elected."

This is not a debatable fact -- even within the Bush administration. As Gonzales's former chief of staff Sampson explained to White House lawyers in an Jan. 9, 2006, e-mail: "In recent memory, during the Reagan and Clinton Administrations, Presidents Reagan and Clinton did not seek to remove and replace U.S. Attorneys they had appointed whose four-year terms had expired, but instead permitted such U.S. Attorneys to serve indefinitely under the holdover provision.'"


Nice try, Beep. ;-)

Cheers,
Scott.

New Impeach him then.
Convince them to quit their bitching and DO something.

Maybe we'll get another non-binding resolution from the dems this time. That'll learn'im.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New Clinton replaced them all at the BEGINNING of his first term
-- just like Bush ALSO DID, at the beginning of HIS first term.

Sure, they "serve at the president's pleasure", yadda yadda... AFAICS, yes, that means they *are* political appointments -- in the sense that you want people with generally sound viewpoints there to begin with. But they're appointments to *a-political* positions; a bit like their direct boss, the Attorney General, they're supposed to be *U.S.* attorneys first, not the White House's or currrent administration's.

So if Bush starts screwing around, in the middle of his second term (and using the convenient "bypass Congressional confirmation" provision tucked into the otherwise unrelated Patriot Act, under the pretext of being for terrierist emergencies), with a *selected* bunch of them (who just "happen" to have nailed crooked Republicans / failed to nail Democrats that the Republicans would have liked to have been crooked), that kind of looks the *teensiest* bit as if his problem isn't with their "generally sound viewpoints" -- they already were politically vetted back when he appointed them -- but with the fact that they're applying them in a non-partisan manner, looking only to uphold the law regardless of party politics.

You know, like they -- and their direct boss, the Attorney General -- are *supposed* to do. (And the "performance" ruse they tried for a while doesn't cut it either -- if anything, these guys are apparently getting fired because they performed *too well*.)

How the heck is that NOT a scandal; and how the fuck can you be so wilfully blind as to not SEE that it is? But no -- you have to go and play the [link|http://idrewthis.org/d/20051103.html| Clinton card] again.

Sheesh.


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New I guess everyone else read the archives, too
===

Kip Hawley is still an idiot.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Im at August 14 last year. I'll catch up, then go to bed :-)
New You missed my point.
Shapiro was at pains to point out that the problem wasn't that they were fired, but that they were fired for refusing to do what he argued was outside their job-spec (namely, fiddle in elections at Republican bidding).

Wade.


Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please



-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

· my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] ·

New The inane "Clinton did it too" defense

The argument is premised on a mistaken understanding of how the process works. When a president takes office, he or she nominates federal prosecutors at the beginning of the first term. Under normal circumstances, these U.S. Attorneys serve until the next president is sworn in.

In 1993, Clinton replaced H.W. Bush\ufffds prosecutors. In 2001, Bush replaced Clinton\ufffds prosecutors. None of this is remotely unusual. Indeed, it\ufffds how the process is designed.

The difference with the current scandal is overwhelming. Bush replaced eight specific prosecutors, apparently for purely political reasons. This is entirely unprecedented. For conservatives to argue, as many are now, that Clinton\ufffds routine replacements for H.W. Bush\ufffds USAs is any way similar is the height of intellectual dishonesty. They know better, but hope their audience is too uninformed to know the difference.

Clinton\ufffds former chief of staff John Podesta told ThinkProgress last week that the entire argument is \ufffdpure fiction.\ufffd

Mr. Rove\ufffds claims today that the Bush administration\ufffds purge of qualified and capable U.S. attorneys is \ufffdnormal and ordinary\ufffd is pure fiction. Replacing most U.S. attorneys when a new administration comes in \ufffd as we did in 1993 and the Bush administration did in 2001 \ufffd is not unusual. But the Clinton administration never fired federal prosecutors as pure political retribution. These U.S. attorneys received positive performance reviews from the Justice Department and were then given no reason for their firings.

We\ufffdre used to this White House distorting the facts to blame the Clinton administration for its failures. Apparently, it\ufffds also willing to distort the facts and invoke the Clinton administration to try to justify its bad behavior.

Josh Marshall added this morning:

First, we now know \ufffd or at least the White House is trying to tell us \ufffd that they considered firing all the US Attorneys at the beginning of Bush\ufffds second term. That would have been unprecedented but not an abuse of power in itself. The issue here is why these US Attorneys were fired and the fact that the White House intended to replace them with US Attorneys not confirmed by the senate. We now have abundant evidence that they were fired for not sufficiently politicizing their offices, for not indicting enough Democrats on bogus charges or for too aggressively going after Republicans. (Remember, Carol Lam is still the big story here.) We also now know that the top leadership of the Justice Department lied both to the public and to Congress about why the firing took place. As an added bonus we know the whole plan was hatched at the White House with the direct involvement of the president.

And Clinton? Every new president appoints new US Attorneys. That always happens. Always\ufffd. The whole thing is silly. But a lot of reporters on the news are already falling for it. The issue here is why these US Attorneys were fired \ufffd a) because they weren\ufffdt pursuing a GOP agenda of indicting Democrats, that\ufffds a miscarriage of justice, and b) because they lied to Congress about why it happened.

Note to Bush allies: if the \ufffdClinton did it\ufffd defense is the best you can do, this scandal must be truly horrifying.

Update: In case there was still any lingering doubt among conservatives on this point, in White House documents released today, there\ufffds an email to Harriet Miers from Attorney General Alberto Gonzales\ufffds chief of staff Kyle Sampson (who resigned yesterday), in which Sampsons admits that the Clinton administration never purged its U.S. attorneys in the middle of their terms, explicitly stating, \ufffdIn recent memory, during the Reagan and Clinton Administrations, Presidents Reagan and Clinton did not seek to remove and replace U.S. Attorneys to serve indefinitely under the holdover provision.\ufffd

Second Update: No matter how often the \ufffdClinton did it\ufffd defense is debunked, the right just can\ufffdt seem to help itself.

Third Update: Now the right has altered the argument, shifting the emphasis to just one prosecutor Clinton fired. Conservatives got this one wrong, too.

[link|http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/10193.html|http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/10193.html]
lincoln

"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow


Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem.


I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States.


[link|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com|contact me]
New the height of intellectual dishonesty == Repo.SOP()
But everyone (including BeeP) already knew that....
jb4
"It's hard for me, you know, living in this beautiful White House, to give you a firsthand assessment."
George W. Bush, when asked if he believed Iraq was in a state of civil war (Newsweek, 26 Feb 07)
New Yeah. What I don't get...
...since BeeP is otherwise a sensible guy -- how the heck can he keep *defending* it?

That's truly mysterious to me.


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New My take (FWIW)
BeeP is the consummate Capitalist (or, at least a capitalist apologist). If you believe the Market can do no wrong, then when it comes to politics, the Repos are your guys. This would be because Repos publically expouse the virtues of the Free Market (read: unbridled, unfettered Capitalism), all the while quietly manipulating the market to be anything but free and open. In the meantime, Dems believe that the Market can be, and often is, quite easily wielded as a cudgel, and therefore (rightly or wrongly, but more often rightly) rail against such wielding, especially by the Repos. This makes them (the Dems) the "Enemy of the Free Market".

BeeP, following the oft-repeated mantra of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", therefore would naturally gravitate to the party that represents (at least publicly) his primary Philosophy of Life. The problem is that he is intelligent, and perceptive, and understands that the enemy of his enemy are every bit as scum-sucking an outfit as his enemy is painted to be. This causes conflict, the results of which are some of the half-assed arguments he has expoused in the act of defending the enemy of his enemy....

Hope I've cleared that up for you a bit, Sir Cyclic.

;-)
jb4
"It's hard for me, you know, living in this beautiful White House, to give you a firsthand assessment."
George W. Bush, when asked if he believed Iraq was in a state of civil war (Newsweek, 26 Feb 07)
Expand Edited by jb4 March 15, 2007, 05:38:57 PM EDT
New It isn't really worth that much.
While the capitalist part is true....

I understand that the free market is anything but...and in fact my venture into these forums some several years ago was at the behest of a fellow member because of my expertise in one of these particular market issues...that being antitrust.

It is YOUR height of folly to think that Democrats are somehow virtuous where the market is concerned. I have no such delusion. You think Bill Gates is a Republican? You think he hasn't manipulated a market for his own benefit? You deny him lying to Congress about said manipulation?

The current "issue" is anything but. Its alot of folks guessing at the intentions of a few and spinning it into a media firestorm.

2 years ago, Harriet, the dear old lady, suggested that they do a 2nd term purge. Yes, it would have not been "tradition". Instead, it was decided then to persue and replace those considered "underperforming".

Of freaking course those let go would bitch about this...saying "I did MY job"...just like anyone you've ever known that got fired.

Oh..but wait..the dems rubber stamp something that gives the Pres authority to do something they don't like (fill the posts without Senate approval)....MORE SCANDAL TO FOLLOW. (Dems are excused because it was a "last minute addition" or because it was "tacked on in secret....pu-frekin-leeze)

In routine hearings, someone is sent to report to Congress that doesn't know all the facts...says things...an email comes to light that suggests that maybe he didn't know the complete history...SCANDAL! (go figure a lacky is sent to talk about this)

One of the prosecutors indicted a Republican..and another didn't follow up on reported abuse in an election the Rep's lost...MORE IMPLIED SCANDAL! (never mind the CA US Attorney was on the list as non-performer 2 years before she brought the case against the rep)

Introduce Karl Rove. Dear Lord now you have the Dem's in a lather. The antichrist himself suggested a friend get one of the jobs...and he did. (no Democrat EVER practiced cronyism...EVER. Hillary. Travel. point. made)

And while unprecedented, unpalatable and whatever other UN you want to throw at it...it remains a fact that the President and his staff did nothing illegal...but its still SCANDAL.

In the meantime...I hear about how THEY would be DIFFERENT..while they continue to demonstrate an uncanny inability to LEAD. At bitching about others they are perfection. When asked to step to the plate and take a stand we're given "non-binding resolutions".

Lead, follow or get out of the way.

Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New Justice Dept. Would Have Kept 'Loyal' Prosecutors

The Justice Department advocated in early 2005 removing up to 20 percent of the nation's U.S. attorneys whom it considered to be "underperforming" but retaining prosecutors who were "loyal Bushies," according to e-mails released by Justice late yesterday.

The three e-mails also show that presidential adviser Karl Rove asked the White House counsel's office in early January 2005 whether it planned to proceed with a proposal to fire all 93 federal prosecutors. Officials said yesterday that Rove was opposed to that idea but wanted to know whether Justice planned to carry it out.

[...]

None of the three new e-mails is from Rove himself. They are part of a string of e-mail correspondence between other officials that ended with Sampson, at the time counselor to Attorney General John D. Ashcroft, offering the White House counsel's office four reasons the notion of removing all of the country's chief federal prosecutors was a bad idea.

Instead, Sampson wrote, "we would like to replace 15-20 percent of the current U.S. Attorneys -- the underperforming ones . . . The vast majority of U.S. Attorneys, 80-85 percent, I would guess, are doing a great job, are loyal Bushies, etc., etc."

[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/14/AR2007031400519.html|Washington Post story]
lincoln

"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow


Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem.


I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States.


[link|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com|contact me]
New #278282. :-)
[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=278282|#278282].

Cheers,
Scott.
     US Attorneys being fired? - (static) - (36)
         Seems to be holding up - (JayMehaffey) - (10)
             Josh Marshall has been on this for a while now. - (Silverlock) - (2)
                 In today's dead-tree Milw. Journal-Sentinel - (jb4)
                 A decent apology to Josh from Time's DC bureau chief - (rcareaga)
             new insight into the issue - (boxley) - (3)
                 I don't think it's happend this late in a term before... - (Another Scott) - (1)
                     Along with the fact - (lincoln)
                 This is different - they were threatened - (tuberculosis)
             There's something I can't help thinking. - (static) - (2)
                 Re: There's something I can't help thinking. - (JayMehaffey)
                 The press is no longer fully complicit - (tuberculosis)
         Washington Post blog series about Gonzales. Part 1 of 4. - (Another Scott) - (6)
             Same as the former CO at Walter Reed - (drewk) - (5)
                 Y'know what that sounds like? - (static) - (4)
                     Nah, I don't think that was quite DrooK's point. - (CRConrad) - (3)
                         "The past exonerative" - (Another Scott)
                         [dup] -NT - (static)
                         Fine distinction, there. - (static)
         DOJ plan to appoint replacements without Sen. confirmation - (Another Scott) - (1)
             Once again, it's the imperial presidency and un-American! -NT - (a6l6e6x)
         This is all pretty darned funny - (bepatient) - (15)
             Stay tuned. Well that didn't take long. Perjury, anyone? - (Another Scott) - (3)
                 So they should have replaced all 93 for the 2nd term - (bepatient) - (2)
                     No. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                         Impeach him then. - (bepatient)
             Clinton replaced them all at the BEGINNING of his first term - (CRConrad) - (2)
                 I guess everyone else read the archives, too -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                     Im at August 14 last year. I'll catch up, then go to bed :-) -NT - (CRConrad)
             You missed my point. - (static)
             The inane "Clinton did it too" defense - (lincoln) - (4)
                 the height of intellectual dishonesty == Repo.SOP() - (jb4) - (3)
                     Yeah. What I don't get... - (CRConrad) - (2)
                         My take (FWIW) - (jb4) - (1)
                             It isn't really worth that much. - (bepatient)
             Justice Dept. Would Have Kept 'Loyal' Prosecutors - (lincoln) - (1)
                 #278282. :-) - (Another Scott)

We have wet blue cow.
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