Who are the 'good guys'?

Post #275,282 by dmcarls 12/9/06 1:01:25 PM Reply	Who are the 'good guys'? It can't be us: [link\|http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N06193252.htm\|http://www.alertnet....esk/N06193252.htm] "Among the 1,000 people who work in the U.S. Embassy in Iraq, only 33 are Arabic speakers and only six speak the language fluently, according to the Iraq Study Group report released on Wednesday. "All of our efforts in Iraq, military and civilian, are handicapped by Americans' lack of knowledge of language and cultural understanding," Good guys don't do this: (from Wikipedia) "Fallujah's compensation commissioner has reported that 36,000 of the city's 50,000 homes were destroyed, along with 60 schools and 65 mosques and shrines". You mention reconstruction: What happened? [link\|http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/feb06/2831/3\|http://www.spectrum.....org/feb06/2831/3] [...] " In 2004, $50 million of Iraqi money was set aside to refurbish the gas equipment at East Baghdad. Another $250 million was earmarked to reconstruct gas pipelines and compressors to move gas from the huge southern oil fields as far north as Quds. But the Ministry of Oil didn't commit to using the funds during that calendar year, so the money was transferred to the Ministry of Finance, as specified in the legal code then in effect in Iraq. What happened to the $300 million then? "We have no clue," says the U.S. power-generation engineer, who was working in Iraq at the time and following the situation. In the meantime, the insurgency has staged devastating attacks on pipelines, timed perfectly for maximum disruption. The attacks have made it impossible to undertake a large pipeline project today. " [link\|http://www.iags.org/iraqpipelinewatch.htm\|http://www.iags.org/...pipelinewatch.htm] No running water... [link\|http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061209/OPINION04/612090307/1105/OPINION\|http://www.delawareo...0307/1105/OPINION] And no end in sight. Bush leaves office in about 25 months. As a people we need to get ready to spend 8 billion per month (the current rate) until he leaves. I know all of this is probably old news, and tiresome, but I thought I would also post my 2 cents. Carry on.
Post #275,284 by Another Scott 12/9/06 1:44:48 PM Reply	I'm not necessarily disagreeing. :-) There's been a huge amount of waste and bungling. But worse than that, we're not doing what it takes to achieve our stated goals. There was a tremendous amount of waste and bungling in WWII, but we changed tactics and replaced commanders when they weren't doing the job. We spent what it took. We raised the Army, Navy and Air Force that it took. The Pentagon and the Bush Administration doesn't seem willing to do that in Iraq. Iraq's a mess and it became a mess as a result of our actions or inaction. We have the means to fix it (for some values of "fix it") if we're willing to pay the price (e.g. possibly occupying the place for decades). Whether we should pay the price can be debated, but if we could defeat Italy, Japan and Germany in less than 4 years, we could "win" in Iraq in that time, too. Personally, I'm torn by what's going on there. As each day passes, it reminds me more of Vietnam. In both cases, apparently, gurilla attacks changed into a civil war. While it's true that democracy cannot be forced on people, it's hard to say that Iraq had a fighting chance to develop a democratic state on its own with the way we handled the occupation. We have an obligation, I think, to try our best to make it right and not just say - "We're starting to leave in 6 months, you better get your act together." It seems to me, we need more police-type forces there, to stop things like the attacks on infrastructure. But we also need much more rapid progess on things like jobs to get the gangs of hoodlums off the streets and working instead of kidnapping and murdering others. That will help improve the lots of the masses of people and make them less willing to support the violent elements. If, at that point, they freely choose a repressive government, well, them's the breaks. And no end in sight. Bush leaves office in about 25 months. As a people we need to get ready to spend 8 billion per month (the current rate) until he leaves. Yup. :-( McCain seems to see the need to try harder, he and Biden being some of the few that have argued for [link\|http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/6/30/94916.shtml\|increasing troop levels in Iraq] (a topic that's been [link\|http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec06/iraq_11-20.html\|debated] quite a bit). It seems as though nobody with the power to make a significant change is willing to do so. Cheers, Scott.
Post #275,318 by Ashton 12/9/06 10:59:10 PM Reply	About those translators - I recall an article (but not where) describing a massacree of US translators, early-on -- ones deemed to possess homosexual tendencies / and or / reluctant to answer questions like, "whom did you vote for?" Natch they were on the streets before you could say, Air Traffic Controllers Fired en masse. As there is nothing new under old sol - let us recall Stalin's purges of the general staff in late '30s. Still, it's difficult to assess which handful of the 100 major tactical and strategic errors since Shock n'Awe - were the deciding ones. Could it be that only 6 or 10 errors on the scale we committed them - would have sufficed to doom the whole fantasy-enterprise? (It's so much easier to mull over a half dozen; a lot cheaper than by the gross, too.) I can't IMAGINE the details of what -??- it will take to get the Decider out of office within << a year. Easier to imagine certain trends if we don't. Vividly.
Post #275,328 by ubernostrum 12/10/06 5:35:48 AM Reply	Yup. A couple people I know who have military connections are still cursing about the number of Arabic speakers who were discharged for having teh ghey. --\r\nYou cooin' with my bird?
Post #275,375 by static 12/10/06 7:54:48 PM Reply	Local language training for the troops should be mandatory. Wherever they are put. Base in Germany? Crash course in German. Carrier off Ethiopa? Crash course in Ethiopian. Guard duty in Cuba? Crash course in Cuban Spanish. Duty in the Philippines? Crash course in Filipino. Peacekeeping in Iraq? Crash course in Iraqi Arabic. Teaching language always teaches some culture. Both would help stop the insularity of US troops. It's ironic that most foriegners appreciate when tourists try to learn some local language and customs because of US tourists who fail to do both. Imagine the response if US troops were to do this. Wade. "Don't give up!"
Post #275,399 by boxley 12/10/06 11:10:58 PM Reply	cuban spanish? inhale helium, take amphetamines Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #275,417 by tuberculosis 12/11/06 1:38:51 AM Reply	Huh? Cuban Spanish is pretty slow - and easy to pick up. Spain Spanish requires extensive time dilation techniques. [link\|http://www.blackbagops.net\|Black Bag Operations Log] [link\|http://www.objectiveclips.com\|Artificial Intelligence] [link\|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html\|Scrutinizer]
Post #275,442 by boxley 12/11/06 9:20:18 AM Reply	why does the rest of latin america deem them motor mouths? I can follow mexican, columbian, porto rican, domenican okay but cubans seem like thewy are talking like the legaleze at the end of a car commercial. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep reach me at [link\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net\|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
Post #275,473 by tuberculosis 12/11/06 1:32:45 PM Reply	Biggest complaint I heard from Chilean companion was they talk too slowly - like a new yorker in florida, she grew impatient with the low baud rate. And I found I could understand them - which must make them on the slower end. OTOH, they do talk circuitously - beat around the bush a lot. Perhaps this is a byproduct of having to watch what you say for a generation. [link\|http://www.blackbagops.net\|Black Bag Operations Log] [link\|http://www.objectiveclips.com\|Artificial Intelligence] [link\|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html\|Scrutinizer]

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