Post #274,665
12/3/06 10:32:59 AM
|

Andrew, be glad you dont live in NYC
NY cracks down on illegal mystery meats
NEW YORK - When a food safety inspector walked into a market in Queens, he noticed the store had an interesting special posted on its front window: 12 beefy armadillos. In Brooklyn, inspectors found 15 pounds of iguana meat at a West Indian market and 200 pounds of cow lungs for sale at another market. At a West African grocery in Manhattan, the store was selling smoked rodent meat from a refrigerated display case. An inspector quickly seized a couple pounds of it.
All of it was headed for the dinner table. All of it was also illegal.
Authorities say the discoveries are part of a larger trend in which markets across New York are buying meat and other foods from unregulated sources and selling them to an immigrant population accustomed to more exotic fare.
State regulators have responded by stepping up enforcement, confiscating 65 percent more food through September than they did in all of 2005.
The seizures also cast a spotlight on the eating habits of this ethnically diverse city, where everything from turtles and fish paste to frogs and duck feet make their way onto people's plates.
"At one time or another, we've probably seen about everything," said Joseph Corby, director of the state's Division of Food Safety and Inspection.
In an attempt to stamp out the activity, Corby's agency has ramped up efforts, working with the Food and Drug Administration, to prevent this illicit food from reaching store shelves.
Instead of just hitting the retailers, Corby said, his inspectors are also targeting warehouses that receive imported products \ufffd Russian, Asian and African \ufffd from where the food is distributed.
So far, it appears his campaign has been effective. In the first nine months of the year, inspectors across the state seized 1.6 million pounds of food, destroying about 81 percent of it. Last year, the state seized only 976,076 pounds of food.
Food taken by the Corby's inspectors lacked proper labeling or didn't come from a government-licensed or inspected source. Other food was destroyed because of the way it was processed or prepared, like chicken smoked in the home and placed on sale.
Such food can spread nasty bacteria like salmonella or botulism.
The rules vary from animal to animal.
Bush meat, or anything killed in the wild, is typically illegal, Corby said. Eating endangered or threatened species like as gorilla and chimpanzee \ufffd whose meat is occasionally found in New York \ufffd is against the law.
But turtles, frogs, iguana and armadillos can be eaten under one condition: The meat must come from a licensed and inspected facility. "We have yet to find too many of these places," Corby said.
In a city filled with clusters of people hailing from all over the world, these rules can get lost in translation.
The problem is particularly acute in the ethnic neighborhoods of New York City, where newly arrived and enterprising immigrants open up food shops, stocking their shelves with savory favorites relished in their native lands.
State sanitary inspection reports dating back to 2001 reveal a widespread appetite for this potentially dangerous food.
On a bustling stretch of Manhattan's Chinatown, Bor Kee Food Market has been caught selling unidentified red meat and mysterious fish paste, which is used in Asian recipes.
Down the street at Dahing Seafood Market, inspectors have found frogs being sold from an unapproved source. And next door, authorities spotted crates of turtles and a large tub of bullfrogs being sold without proper invoices.
Inside Kam Lun Food Products in Queens, inspectors discovered questionable turtles and frogs and a clue: "Label on animal boxes states China Air Cargo," the inspector wrote in his report.
"That's a no-no because there is absolutely no monitoring of the standards in these places," said Dr. Philip Tierno, author of "The Secret Life of Germs: Observations and Lessons from a Microbe Hunter," and director of clinical microbiology at New York University Medical Center. "It's subject to the vagaries of whoever is processing the food. Who's watching?"
Singed chicken was also common in these ethnic enclaves. This is chicken that has been singed with fire to remove any excess feathers or stems from a bird. Singed chicken is prohibited because it appears cooked.
At the West African Grocery \ufffd where "smoked rodent" was found \ufffd the owner failed to explain why he was selling the mysterious meat, saying he couldn't speak English.
But he could apparently read the sanitary inspection report and the word "rodent." "I don't know what that is," the owner said. "I don't sell that here."
A similar exchange played out at another market in Brooklyn called Chang Xiang Trading.
When confronted with reports showing the store has sold illegal pork, chicken and ducks, the manager, shrugged her shoulders. Her English was not good, she said.
Sung Soo Kim, president of Korean American Small Business Service Center of New York, says it's hard to change eating habits that are centuries-old.
Kim runs a state-approved food safety education program and has delivered seminars to the Korean community about food laws.
Corby says education is key \ufffd along with fines \ufffd in getting owners to pass inspections and stop buying and selling illegal food.
One way to get businesses to comply is ordering them to take a state-approved food inspection course that also teaches about cleanliness and cross-contamination.
"Immigrants coming from the Third World would not be schooled in the issues of cross contamination and would not intuitively know hygiene standards," said Dr. Pascal James Imperato, a former city health commissioner who spent six years in Africa with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "They don't know how simple contamination can result in a widespread epidemic."
But if all else fails, Corby will get a court injunction and shutter stores, something the state did 66 times in 2005 and 72 times through September of this year.
"We either clean them up or close them down," he said. "There is a high standard that is applied. We'd rather have it too high than too low."
Ruiad Nasher, who immigrated from Bangladesh in 1995, manages the Master Mini Market in Brooklyn. The market has been in business about two years.
State inspectors busted the market selling more than 50 pounds of chicken from an unapproved source this year. Nasher bought the chickens from a poultry market in Brooklyn, and said he didn't know he was violating state law.
"In Bangladesh, you didn't have all these rules," he said.
Nasher said he now only buys USDA-approved chicken, even shrugging off discounted offers from the Brooklyn chicken purveyor.
"Just for chicken, I don't want to lose my business," he said.
[link|http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061202/ap_on_fe_st/mystery_meat_2|http://news.yahoo.co...st/mystery_meat_2]
|
Post #274,669
12/3/06 11:27:06 AM
|

We have all the same rules here - and much more . . .
. . but not so much problem. Education efforts have been intense and ongoing for many years and in many languages. Enforcement has always been intense and everyone knows about it.
It helps that California is a major agricultural state and has such a wide climate range. If there's a market for anything it'll soon be grown here and certified, and the import markets are very well organized and regulated for stuff that isn't grown here.
"Rodent", though, isn't widely available except for rabbit, and to make a propper haggis you'd have to buy your own sheep because sheep lungs aren't legal in trade here.
We do have a continuing problem with Asians trying to stock local streams with live snakeheads, definitely a problem fish and highly illegal to posess live, but legal and widely available "previously frozen" in local Asian markets.
The big dispute has been about how long rice cakes can safely be kept at a cool room temperature (they're ruined by refrigeration). The state backed off on enforcement and is currently studying just how long they can allow and still assure safety.
It's very difficult for a traditional Chinese restaurant to get an "A" window sign from the county inspectors because of incompatibilities between food regulations and traditional methods. It has been done, but most Chinese restaurants settle for a "B" or "C" (below "C" there are numerical ratings but you will never see one posted because any establishment below "C" is closed until corrected).
In most parts of Los Angeles County a lot of people will only eat at an "A" restaurant and certainly not at a "C", but in traditional Asian areas the "C" is hard enough to get it's considered good enough.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
|
Post #274,670
12/3/06 12:50:49 PM
|

say a "crock" sentence
your local walmart super center sells fish farmed in china, shrimp farmed in thailand and vietnam. Which US agency certifies these farms? Your guessed it. Walmart can do it because they are big, a small shop owner in NYC gets fined. Unless it sez wild caught in US or Canada I wouldnt eat it. thanx, bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
|
Post #274,674
12/3/06 1:48:51 PM
12/3/06 1:51:34 PM
|

If everyone followed that rule . . .
. . nobody would be eating fish - they'd be extinct or near extinction and priced so high they'd all be shipped to Japan (where high price is considered the greatest flavor enhancement).
U.S. rainbow trout production in 2002 was over 27,000 tons (and the U.S. is not the largest producer). Salmon production was over 14,000 tons and catfish production was over 315,000 tons. There is no chance in hell this volume could be produced by "wild catch".
Fish farming definitely presents environmental and health problems, but those problems need to be worked out. A lot of progress is being made.
As for Southeast Asian fish (farmed and wild caught), producers are increasingly US FDA [link|http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/haccp.html|HACCP compliant] (Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point), particularly in Vietnam.
It is not difficult for small markets to obtain properly certified products from wholesalers.
A couple of years ago U.S. catfish farmers, concerned by imports of Vietnamese catfish (basa and tra), sent an expedition to gather information about the Vietnamese catfish industry, hoping to use it in marketing.
One representative stated, "We went to Vietnam expecting to find fish grown in poluted water and processed in primitive facilities. That is not what we found and we're scared to death."
Incidentally, Vietnamese catfish is not like American channel cat. It's from a genus called "shark catfish" due to their shape. Fillets are thinner and broader and the flavor is less assertively "catfishy". Very good fish, all in all.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
|
Post #274,675
12/3/06 1:51:00 PM
|

Our food laws are a drag
Without knocking yourself out, most places it is bloody hard to get anything not beef, chicken or pork. Yawn. On occasion, you can score a bit of lamb - which I snap up every chance I get.
"Singed chicken was also common in these ethnic enclaves. This is chicken that has been singed with fire to remove any excess feathers or stems from a bird. Singed chicken is prohibited because it appears cooked."
Any boucherie in France will have a bunch of dead, but partially processed birds in the window cooler (head still on - maybe with some feathers). They complete the processing in front of you, including firing up a blow torch to singe the last of the feathers off. I don't suppose we could just insist it be labelled or done on demand?
I have no idea what I'm going to cook for x-mas this year - but the usual meats aren't providing any inspiration. I think the best x-mas dinner I ever had was the haunch of venison I cooked in Paris.
Unless you live in a heavily ethnic area like Andrew, the local grocery is a snoozer.
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
|
Post #274,676
12/3/06 1:53:45 PM
12/3/06 1:56:51 PM
|

Personally, I'm planning on goose this year.
Armadillo is tempting but just not all that Christmassy.
It's not food laws that are the problem, as California demonstrates (we have the toughest food laws anywhere), but corporate decision making (the root of all evil).
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
|
Post #274,686
12/3/06 3:44:42 PM
|

standing rib roast for xmas
farmed goose tastes funny. Im used to Emperor or Canadian geese after they spend summer eating blueberries. thanx, bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
|
Post #274,687
12/3/06 4:09:51 PM
|

Yum
[link|http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/ribroast3.html|http://www.virtualwe...om/ribroast3.html]
I NEED a smoker!
|
Post #274,706
12/3/06 7:03:16 PM
12/9/06 11:47:42 AM
|

And now I have one
[link|http://store.barbecue-smoker-grill.com/goelsmandgrr.html|http://store.barbecu...goelsmandgrr.html]
I'll let you know how it works out. I figure I'll start with some cheaper meat and go from there.

Edited by crazy
Dec. 9, 2006, 11:47:42 AM EST
|
Post #275,208
12/8/06 7:34:21 PM
|

I love it!
I've only cooked chicken so far.
Bought a pair of 4 lb chickens and a mixture of poultry herbs.
Total cost - $9.
Tossed the giblets, melted the butter in the microwave along with the chopped up herbs, chopped garlic, salt, and pepper.
Smeared it all over the chickens.
Cooked them legs down (not on purpose, just reporting).
Used hickory wood for the smoke.
Set it up in my garage. I spent about 3 hours cleaning the garage out once I decided I wanted to cook in it.
Put them in at about 7, expected to be done sometime after 11PM. Sometime was an understatement, hit 165 at 1:30 in the morning.
It was a work day. Blech.
I ripped off the wings and drumsticks from one. It was VERY good. The skin was perfectly golden brown, crispy, and tasty. The meat was mildly "smoked", very moist, fall off the bone tender.
Hell, I might even start posting picture like Gryg.
The remote temp sensor was a MUST. I'd go insane running back and forth checking for doneness.
Brought in a tupperware container of the breast meat. Was OK, but could have been better.
Next day, I was able to cut the remaining chicken in 1/2, easily, with standard steak knife. I took a 1/2 to work, wrapped in Saran wrap.
Microwaved for 2.5 minutes. The skin maintained the moisture, kept the meat very juicy and tender, but the skin itself was mostly yucky. Good on the wing and drumstick, gross on the breast. But the breast meat was great so it was a good trade off.
It smelled so good I had co-workers following me around.
Came home, ate the other half. When I was done with the meat, I fried up the skin. Mmmm - grievan.
Next day, made 2 more. Put in 6PM, finished at midnight. This group was legs up, spread out.
I tried a "Honey Bourbon" flavor stick in one of them. Sucked. Glad I didn't do both.
I made the mistake of ripping the breast skin off and eating most of it. Short term gain. When I microwaved it at work the next day, the breast was too dry. Then again, maybe it was becuase the legs were out.
Next time I'll do legs in.
Gave a drumstick to a co-worker - she'll always be grateful!
Came home, had other 1/2 for dinner. Same issue with the breast, but the thigh, drumstick, and wing was very good.
This weekend I'll try some real meat. Maybe brisket, maybe a roast like recipe that started this adventure.
Since it cost about $100 when you take into account the remote temp gauge and the various other stuff (rib rack, wood chips), it'll take about 25 cheap meals before it pays for itself. which will probably be within a few weeks. I really like the taste and tenderness of chicken cooked this way. I'd never do this type of chicken cooking in anything else.
Also, I have to find a source for other woods such as apple and cherry. The roast recipes use those.
|
Post #275,226
12/8/06 10:05:42 PM
|

In the garage?
You know about CO production, right? I don't think running a smoker in a garage, unless it is by the door and the door is open, is a good idea. Extra bad if your home happens to pull air from there.
Just sayin' we've had a few CO deaths around here with people doing things like bringing a generator into the living room to watch football during a power outage.
OTOH, the meat thing sounds pretty cool.
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
|
Post #275,233
12/8/06 10:44:06 PM
|

Don't worry - It's electric
[link|http://store.barbecue-smoker-grill.com/goelsmandgrr.html|http://store.barbecu...goelsmandgrr.html]
I just went out and bought a brisket. Chopped up an onion, put it in a bowl with lemon juice, red wine vinegar, and lot of olive oil and assoted meat spices.
Rubbed it all over, wrapped it in saran wrap, put it in the fridge.
Tomorrow I'll rub more spices and smoke it for 6 hours (or so).
Mmmmm
|
Post #275,240
12/9/06 12:24:01 AM
|

Yabut, its job is to burn wood
very slowly to produce flavored gas through partial combustion of wood. What do you suppose a major constituent of that smoke is?
Look, here's the [link|http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:9vxr11bzZtcJ:www.masterbuilt.com/pdf/manuals/old%2520site/gmes.pdf+electric+smoker+carbon+monoxide&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10|manual] for a comparable product - it starts with dire warnings about CO dangers.
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
|
Post #275,277
12/9/06 11:46:39 AM
|

Don't worry, be happy
This "smoker" is almost more of a steamer.
The bottom is filled with lava rocks, with the heating element snaking around.
You use about a double handful of wood chips. You soak them in water. You place them on the lava rocks, a few on the element to get a quick burst of smoke.
There is a huge bowl of water hanging under the bottom grill.
You place your meat on either grills.
You plug it in.
As the element warms up, and wood resting on it flares up. It heats the rocks and the water. The rocks heat the remaining wet wood. The wood evaporates off the water, and then slowly burns. I meant slowly. 90% of the wood is unburned when done.
The smoke mixes with the steams and swirls around. Sure, it all leaks out in the end, but it does not have a continuous stream of burning wood and smoke that a real smoker would. A small amount is concentrated in the smoker for an extended period.
I only started off with a double handful of wood, and I'm only combusting around 10%.
And yes, my garage is VERY drafty.
I'm safe.
|
Post #275,352
12/10/06 12:42:33 PM
|

Did the brisket last night
After 6 hours in the smoker it was getting a bit dry. The top layers of chopped onions was nicely crisped, and most of the fat had melted away.
I took it inside, wrapped it in tin foil. I had the water pan that was filled with drippings and some water, so I poured it right in.
250 degree oven for another 1.5 hours.
Took it out, was a bit tough. Oh well.
Then I had it for breakfast today. It had softened up nicely. And tasted much better as well. I was worried that the wine vinegar would overpower it, but it adds the perfect edge to the flavor.
I took the drippings, removed the fat, put a bit of salt and pepper, and boiled it down until it was about 1/3. The perfect sauce.
I figure I'll get about 8 meals total based the amount I eat per sitting, which means a 5 lb brisket which cost me $25 will feed me at $3.125 per meal.
I'm loving this thing.
|
Post #275,353
12/10/06 12:54:07 PM
|

make some jerky next time
slice the brisket paper thin along the grain. Sea Salt Pepper garlic powder. Yum thanx, bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep
reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
|
Post #275,251
12/9/06 1:52:26 AM
|

Linky no workee
===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
Post #275,278
12/9/06 11:48:04 AM
|

Linkee fixee
|
Post #274,711
12/3/06 7:57:07 PM
|

this way is better
[link|http://www.cooksrecipes.com/beef/standing-rib-roast-in-salt-crust-recipe.html|http://www.cooksreci...crust-recipe.html] except to see how many to feed we measure one bone per person +1 extra. We are carnivores around here. Seminole coarse ground horseradish, baked potato with sour cream butter and chives. thanx, bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
|
Post #274,717
12/3/06 9:36:33 PM
|

Does it taste salty when you're done?
According to that recipe you're not letting it sit in the salt, so it doesn't have a lot of time to soak in before the heat starts pushing juices out. On the other hand, it's freaking encased in salt. So, how salty does it end up?
===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
Post #274,722
12/3/06 9:44:02 PM
|

I love the hammer instruction
|
Post #274,727
12/3/06 10:02:04 PM
|

I've seen it done for fish (Iron Chef)
But they all thought it was too salty. But of course fish is much thinner than a roast, so even if only the edge is salty it's mostly edge.
===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
Post #274,744
12/4/06 12:03:48 AM
|

I've got a recipe for southwest goat leg in clay
Looks pretty festive. Press little designs in the clay and make a big deal cracking it open at the table with a hammer and chisel.
Maybe I'll give that a go if I can find one.
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
|
Post #274,770
12/4/06 9:11:41 AM
|

find out where the mexicans shop, the local carniceria
should carry that. Probably on the mainland, doesnt sound like the hermanos have a large contigent where you live. thanx, bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
|
Post #274,781
12/4/06 11:44:36 AM
|

Actually, there's a mexican grocery in Poulsbo
just over the bridge and through the reservation.
I'll have to check it out.
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
|
Post #274,724
12/3/06 9:46:07 PM
|

not at all, if you have ever had a real prime rib
that salty flavorful crust on the edge of the meat is the only salty spot. The meat is incredibly tender. Unfortunately I have never been able to find real prime rib south of the mason dixon. The best in the nation is(was) at the 210 east cafe in Anchorage, followed by a restaurant Chicago and several in the west and one or two in DC. thanx, bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
|
Post #274,728
12/3/06 10:04:04 PM
|

Can't find it?
They don't do that cut? Even if you ask the butcher for one?
In any case, I really want to try this, but don't want to experiment with a 5-bone roast for Christmas Eve dinner. Maybe I'll try a smaller one next weekend. And since it's an experiment, I'm thinking that roast will need some fresh ground pepper before I apply the salt.
===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
Post #274,729
12/3/06 10:21:39 PM
|

It's probably the aging
IIRC, people in Chicago like their steaks aged.
People in Texas don't. So maybe Box likes his aged, but all he can get is Texas-style. But, I'm guessing.
--Tony
|
Post #274,731
12/3/06 11:10:11 PM
|

nope to all, pay attention
restaurants claming to serve prime rib serve pre-packged slabs of ribeye with flavoring added heated to your spec. Restaurants in the south who serve a true prime rib use the english cooking method. Rosemary Thyme Basil Dill rubs, that is an english roast not a prime rib. The salt method is used by europeans with saxony backgrounds, germanic, jewish and ossies, the 210 east cafe in anchorage has a mad, drunken elderly swiss cook. It is the place where I opined that a true escargo burguignon was hard to find, the next time I went it was on the menu. [link|http://www.thegutsygourmet.net/escar_bourg.html|http://www.thegutsyg.../escar_bourg.html] thanx, bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
|
Post #274,740
12/3/06 11:45:14 PM
|

Well, I be making it next weekend
since I need to exercise my new smoker.
|
Post #274,742
12/3/06 11:51:16 PM
|

Don't blame me
We were talking about a standing rib roast. Then you said (which I see now that I went back and re-read) that you can't get a good prime rib.
Dammit, now I'm hungry for charred cow, and it's nearly midnight.
===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
Post #274,743
12/3/06 11:54:36 PM
12/5/06 6:58:32 AM
|

I've been wandering recipe sites
Oh, I'm gonna do some serious smoking!

Edited by crazy
Dec. 5, 2006, 06:58:32 AM EST
|
Post #274,772
12/4/06 9:26:31 AM
|

ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #274771 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=274771|ICLRPD]
Smile, Amy
|
Post #274,817
12/5/06 2:28:50 AM
|

SIE... Sights???
Hey, let's switch a few letters around:
SIGH... Sites!!!
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
|
Post #274,774
12/4/06 9:28:13 AM
|

ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #274773 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=274773|ICLRPD]
Smile, Amy
|
Post #274,746
12/4/06 12:38:35 AM
|

I saw Jamie Oliver do something like to a chook.
(That's a chicken for you non-Aussies.)
Wade.
"Don't give up!"
|
Post #274,704
12/3/06 6:23:43 PM
|

2nd year for a Turducken here
The company's owner is very fond of them and gives one to every employee right before Thanksgiving. We already had a turkey purchased, so it sits in our freezer until the big holiday arrives.
lincoln
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States.
[link|mailto:golf_lover44@yahoo.com|contact me]
|