Post #27,335
2/5/02 2:49:58 AM
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A few comments on car buying 2002
That is - buying used from a priv. party. Of course one can write a (nother) book in the Dummies vein. This is not that.
I had only a few models on my list, and would at least consider certain kinds of (repaired) damage + high mileage. Only One Model at the last, after I drove one of those and recognized the designer as a cohort..
I ran into 4 lo-balls: too new too cheap and called "excellent". At the first, I coughed up my $20 for 2 mos of unlimited CarFax usage: worth every penny. Highly recommended to Any PP-purchaser and even dealer stuff: there is info there (and logical deductions) which not even dealers Have to reveal.. but You Want to know! GET THAT VIN and read for comprehension, FIRST THING. (Wireless web - at last a Use for that ;-)
(One reject was from a local new car dealer - allegedly where "they save the good ones and whsle. the rest".) Two were salvage (not Always a foolish buy - just almost-always). The other had been auctioned 2x and sat.. you could read the implications of who bought it and why it sat, etc. (I might have taken the '98 Acura, had the guy not been so transparently unrevealing = had I seen pix of 'before' and what was done. Dumbth + duplicity.)
The last was not merely 'Salvage' but 'Junk!' = you cannot ever relicense it in this state! (=for parts only). Advertised as "excellent". Think of a political campaign.. or anything from Redmond.
Anyway.. CarFax Is Your Friend! (as is kbb and cars.com = where I actually found my near-perfect car, advt. only on web.) Hi mileage (but not for its life expectancy and also at normal mi/year - all hiway), excellent not 'good' condition w/ extra oil changes - and all records yada yada. Damn near a cream-puff. Sometimes ya get Lucky. (He and his mechanic - fanatic nuts.. my kinda guys for This)
Be careful out there!
Ashton
Picking it up tomorrow - and it has five (5! count 'em) cylinders! (And nice countershaft to balance the rocking-couple to a fare-thee-well)
Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle.. Cackle..
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Post #27,337
2/5/02 6:30:06 AM
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VW? Volvo? Audi? or (gasp!) TurboDiesel Jeep Cherokee?!
On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
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Post #27,342
2/5/02 8:26:32 AM
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Uhhh________nope.
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Post #27,367
2/5/02 10:46:19 AM
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okay GIVE wankel motor?
My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
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Post #27,368
2/5/02 10:49:53 AM
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I know I know I know! It's a Honda!
[link|http://www.esportbike.com/news/jan01/000129_01_gp.html|Here.]
Right?
:-)
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #27,391
2/5/02 12:05:19 PM
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If not that Honda, a Mercedes Diesel?
(Dunno if they sell those in the States, though; I'm not even sure the Mercedes diesels are five-cylinder any more.)
Otherwise, a Fiat (or Alfa Romeo or Lancia; they all have the same engine)?
Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
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Post #27,547
2/6/02 4:46:30 PM
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So near.. and yet so far
"Honda?" the man said?
(Now if Soichiro were still alive, and recalled the non-conversation with 2 Yanks, of a few decades past.. well maybe my next cycle could be a road version of that er V-[2+3].. At least it wouldn't have oval... pistons - like their last fantasy of fiddling HP vs. stupid FIM formula, regardless of the cockamamieness (what's that word, dans Fran\ufffdais?))
Since they made only 32K of these in '92-'94, guess the badge hasn't reached public consciousness. There's even a website where the current crop of experimenters use 'pre-cooled plenum chambers' and otherwise fiddle with the base excellent components. Seems.. it's about to be a Collector Car (!?)
And the name kinda begs for rearranging the letters on the boot/trunk whatever:
VIAGRA? (old coot car)
VIGORISH? (gambler's nemesis)
(Can't expect CRC to know about *all* the models worldwide, ever: but I Do expect. ;-) Dunno if they made variants of these in other than US (with diff. badge?) but am told there was a Coupe version, sold only in Japan - which would have been my 1st choice natch..
[link|http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.rp?kbb.CA&95452&11&94vigor|Herewith Gort]
So anyway.. diffrunt strokes. Featurez:
170+ HP - blows away the other exc. fours both in lo-speed torque (where you run 90% of the time) and in smoothness - that counterbalance works. Consumer Reports - the nearest we have here to pretty unbiased 'opinions' (if you correct for their 'farmily POV') BUT real and sufficient user data: lists this and Integra with just about 0 defects, highest Brownie-points in all categories. (Irrelevant to me if.. it happened also to be as boring as say, a Toyota Corolla or as softly-sprung as an Accord etc. But it Isn't those things. It aims to be a real GT)
When my friend got the new '93 Integra, I inspected minutely. The level of finish was to me ~astonishing for any 'consumer' product. Engine compartment looked as finely finished as a motorcyle - and as compact and thus inaccessible :( - pretty much the Price for aerodynamics and modern crumple-rate people protection. Ex - just the door inner-panels: perfectly conforming to contours and 100% sealed against weather into the cab - or the door innards. In 9 years - she has paid $0 for Anything but maintenance. One plastic vent 'air director' was replaced under warranty. Nada else. Most importantly, the (var-rate) steering, road feel, braking - even the logic of the auto-trans - simply worked as I would want them to. Closest thing to a Tektronix Oscilloscope (!) No difference today, 9 yrs. later. And the V. was ~40% more bucks new, than the Integra.
Well.. now the fun begins.. what did I miss? checking But for now - it worketh and.. it goeth and stoppeth rilly Well. And have to look at tach to see if it's still idling. 'GS' means it has all the toys known to womankind incl sliding moonroof.. and the CD to play some trumpet by the young Russian genius, Sergei Nakariakov.. on the maiden voyage home. All nicely audible at 80+ clicks. A Hobbit would appreciate this flavor of magic...
Ashton
Hey the ABS works too - gotta find some ice !!
But the stupid #%^*# space-saver 60 psig 'spare tyre' sux..
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Post #27,548
2/6/02 5:21:17 PM
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Never 'eard of 'im!
But hey, now I feel more educated. The Vigor never made it to .au. All our Hondas are still badged as Hondas - about the only unusual Honda thing we've had here was the short-lived Concerto. Otherwise its been Civic/Accord/Legend for many many years, the only recent changes to the lineup have been the NSX, CR-V, HR-V and Odyssey.
I guess my little Nissan Bluebird of happiness is similarly underrepresented in this nation's automotive lineup. They never did sell too many of them - which in a way is good because the second hand price is more attractive.
Congrats, and may you drive your Vigor with vigour!
On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
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Post #27,553
2/6/02 6:07:19 PM
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Someone at work has/had one.
Congratulations! It seems like a very nice car.
I recall reading a story back then that said Honda justified going to an in-line 5 arranged perpendicular to the front "axle" as a way to damp out various harmonics that are difficult to remove with transverse engines. Seemed like an extreme solution to the problem, but it was another reflection that Honda isn't (or at least wasn't) afraid to do unconventional engineering. Kudos to them.
The one I've seen at work looks like a neat car, but it has a larger front overhang than most other FWD cars. (It looks a little different from the one pictured in your link - maybe it was a different year.) It's certainly a big change from the newest BMW 3-series, for example, that nearly has the front wheels at the corners. The Vigor's profile is unique and not unpleasing.
Best of luck with your new baby! :-)
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #27,566
2/6/02 7:01:17 PM
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In-line engine
(in both senses) Yes, that was a preference of mine, though not a determinant. In practical terms I think.. there's a bit more ease in getting to stuff, even though the space is filled.. it isn't as crammed as in the crosswise designs.
Then too, my fav past cars - Citr\ufffden, Saab were similarly oriented. My suspicion is that the concentrated 'polar moment' of the 4-across types may not produce the best handling. A bit spread fore and aft just.. sounds better. As to rear wheel placement ergo wheelbase shortening, again I'd prefer squeeezing the occasional rear-seat passengers a tad = not a problem for 2, only with 3, VS better handling. The rear overhang beyond axle would be acceptably small unless carrying Pb bricks in the trunk.
Anyway.. it passes my slalom test without exc. lean, and it's closest I'd ever get to a $29K machine (at '94 prices - more like 35 now) for merely hauling around a 180# carbon unit. The TL continued the 5 cyl. engine for 2? more years. Now it's all V-6 (meaning inaccessible spark plugs for 2 or 3 cylinders!).
Fun.. not many toys as complex as a 'car'. Lots to play DIY engineer with. Gotta get Service man. "MAN ABS"
Cheers,
A.
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Post #27,573
2/6/02 7:26:57 PM
2/7/02 7:38:59 AM
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Ah. Didn't know those have fives; they were never sold here.
So it was basically a Honda[*] Audi-100-clone, then...
At least that's how I interpreted your[Correction:]the Other Scott's remark about the front overhang. You did mean[So tell me,] it has the whole engine in front of (as opposed to beside or on top of) the gearbox (and thus also the front wheel hubs), no?
Is it more like a shrunken Legend, or a stretched (or perhaps even just re-skinned?) Accord, would you say? (I had always assumed the latter, but I'm not sure.)
[*]: We have Honda Legends and NSXes too; none of that silly "Acura" bullshit here. Kudos to Honda, as opposed to "Lexus" (Toyota) and "Infiniti" (Nissan), for not assuming that European car buyers are as easily snowed by badge engineering as Americans apparently are!
Christian R. Conrad
The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Edited by CRConrad
Feb. 6, 2002, 07:33:13 PM EST
Edited by CRConrad
Feb. 7, 2002, 07:38:59 AM EST
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Post #27,574
2/6/02 7:38:24 PM
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Badge Engineering
Don't forget Mazda's Eunos. Don't/Didn't they have about six brands in Japan? The only other one I can think of off hand is Autozam.
We had a funny little plan in .au in the early 90's called the Button plan (named after the senator who instituted it). I think it was supposed to help improve the profitability of the Oz car industry by increasing platform and common part sharing among local manufacturers. Or something.
In reality it gave us a Holden Commodore badged as the Toyota Lexcen, a Nissan Pintara badged as the Ford Corsair, Toyota's Corolla and Camry badged as the Holden Nova and Apollo. And the Ford Ute badged as the Nissan Ute. Nice one, that. Still, it proved you could raise the value of your ute simply by taking to the big 'NISSAN' vinyl letters on the tailgate with a hairdryer 'til they peeled off.
Sheetmetal changes were minimal at best, and no-one was particularly fooled. Except people buying Mazda 626s as Ford Telstars, but that one had been going on (successfully) for ages before the Button plan.
Mazda gave up on the Eunos brand here a year or two ago, after nothing much spectacular happened with the 30x and the 800? 500?, er, whatever the Mazda Millenia was called. Infiniti put in an appearance for about 10 minutes, too.
On and on and on and on, (about the car)
and on and on and on goes John. (and much too far)
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Post #27,690
2/7/02 3:42:45 PM
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Even the Munificent LRPD does it!___"Now, new ChiaLRPD[tm]!"
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Post #27,575
2/6/02 7:43:14 PM
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WTF - aren't strikethrough (<s>) tags supposed to work here?
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Post #27,587
2/6/02 9:41:27 PM
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Yes.
But you have to use the right tag. Silly CRC! :-)
Wade.
"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
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Post #27,590
2/6/02 10:07:19 PM
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What CRC is doing OK according to O'Reilly HTML book.
The koala book - HTML The Definitive Guide, 2nd edition (1997).
The tag must have been, in Standards speak, deprecated, i.e. supported but it's use discouraged.
Alex
"Of course, you realize this means war." -B. Bunny
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Post #27,593
2/6/02 10:31:46 PM
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Hmm.
According to the W3C web site, STRIKE is the official tag in HTML 3.2, but they mention it may be deprecated in future versions in favour of S. HTML 4 deprecates them both.
I suspect the HTML filter here on zIWETHEY doesn't know what S tags are and escapes them. :-)
Wade.
"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
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Post #27,588
2/6/02 9:53:18 PM
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Use the source, Luke.
I mean the page source, CRC. The <s> looks like "<s>".
Funny how in the preview of my post, your post (the one I am commenting on) does have a strike through. And, <strike>text</strike> does work.
Must be a bug, eh?
Alex
"Of course, you realize this means war." -B. Bunny
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Post #27,604
2/6/02 11:08:34 PM
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The rebadging scam
as Meerkat describes - seems a peculiarly ex-US form of Microsoftian BS. No one here has any doubt that Acura IS a Honda - and no more nefarious a moniker than say, GM making all those mere skin-deep changes on a few basic platforms. Ditto "Infiniti" and "Lexus" - it's a Toyota! In a TL review at kbb, guy wrote - This car has spirit. Perhaps it's the spirit of
Soichiro Honda in this all-new Acura 3.2 TL.
Mr. Honda died in 1992, but officials from
American Honda's Acura Division say the TL
embodies his philosophies of performance,
styling, luxury and value. He strived for
perfection in all his cars and many of them
were significant mileposts in the history of
the automobile. I do tend to deem Soichiro as a cut above most every other Auto-mogul. He began at the bottom and built his company on at least ~principles to the idealized blurb above. Maybe he was Henry Ford 2: The Quality Guy, somehow even retained through huge quantities too, as people copped to the difference (?) But then, neither do I imagine I know very much about the man behind the er Legend (though that also speaks for itself ;-) 'Least... I heard his voice! on the phone once - and the Co. response to our query was 1st Class: take it in - we'll fix it. Period, no ifs, 'warranty' legalese yada yada. (So, I'm prejudiced by one anecdotal fact from experience) On Vigor: Driveshafts emerge about dead center of cyl #3 - where, is obv. visible as er C/L of the wheel. (D'ohh) Tran seems spread about the bottom somewhere + behind, though I have yet to see cutaway, get manuals etc. Recall seeing some sort of 'stepped' trans housing in a Acura blurb once, suggesting that it indeed is partly below, partly behind engine. Size comparison: not much larger than the Saab 99GL - 'least as it fits in my garage. The leather *cough* encased manual says LWH = 190, 70, 54 inches = 4.83, 1.78, 1.37 meters. Oddly no curb weight; prolly on a body sticker - there are several. No doubt Accord base, but different suspension goodies and obv - power module; dunno about WB - relatively iggerant of Accord stuff. Didn't consider one. Vanilla and a bit too squishy, however well constructed. Still a bit amazed at the cleanliness of everything, including underside (he only wiped down the engine compartment - once saw what some 'cleaners' do to the protective alloy coatings, so eschewed washing the guts.. - fanatic, as I said). Now if all those &^$%& transistors will keep on keeping on... {sheesh} there's damn little you can fix on these suckers or even diagnose w/o some gadgetry. It's a plot to keep the $80/hr parts replacers in speedboats and UAVs. Now as to the design of 8 yr. old airbags VS the newer kinder, gentler ones -?- Oh well. In for a penny - I can be sure that, even a 30 mph collision will bend enough sheetmetal, pop airbags etc. as to become expen$ive, while saving little Me-Me-Me. That's a priority I can live with. [/trite pun] Ashton
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Post #27,710
2/7/02 6:47:48 PM
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neat tidy muted pizazz, looks good!
"If you're half-evil, nothing soothes you more than to think the person you are opposed to is totally evil."
Norman Mailer
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Post #27,727
2/7/02 8:14:54 PM
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And then..
(Thanks, that about sums it up - still can't believe my luck on the 'condition')
And then.. day I picked it up - a full-blown nasty cold (which I get rarely.. maybe 2 yrs ago) So sittin here with the required 8 glasses of water/day, yucky Goldenseal and ... awfulness.
Not even enough energy to twit a crypto-fascist (if we had any).
{sniff}
Poor Me :(
(Maybe just Nature's way of delaying gratification?)
Ashton
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