Who would replace them? Where are the statesmen?

Post #268,994 by Another Scott 9/30/06 9:27:25 AM Reply	Who would replace them? Where are the statesmen? What happened to people who used to have reasonable ideas about how to govern and were willing to think about solutions to problems? Where are the Mario Cuomos and Richard Lambs and William Proxmires and Barbara Jordans and Millicent Fenwicks of this generation? They must be out there - why aren't they running for office and gaining visibility? I don't know... What I fear is going to happen is that Foley's case will be protrayed as yet another abberation and yet another argument for stronger laws to "protect the children from the evils of the Internet" - laws that will do no such thing but will make it easier for overzealous prosecutors to ruin the lives of people who are no threat to children (or anyone else). Few will step back and ask: Why are new laws needed? How have existing laws on "internet child porn" and so forth actually been used and who, if anyone, have they protected? Does it serve the interests of society for national the government to spend so much time on such problems, or instead is it mostly a tactic to spread fear? Of course, too many intolerant Bible thumpers will cite [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Foley\|Foley] as an example of the evils of homosexuality - when it's really another example of the problems caused by adults repressing their sexuality, and of the cloak of silence that still engulfs inappropriate behavior by Congressmen. To be clear: It looks to me that Mark Foley was engaged in inappropriate conversation with minors. People who knew about it months or years ago should have made it clear to him that it was inappropriate and that he should stop it. If he needed help to do so, he should have gotten help. I don't think that his behavior - what I have read about it (I've seen nothing about molestation or contact, only text messages and e-mails) - should have been a criminal offense. He should have had outlets with adults for his sexual urges. The fact that he didn't, or felt that he didn't, tells me that he needed help and that more repressive laws or witchhunts will only make the problem worse. Cheers, Scott. (Who probably should move Brin's [link\|http://www.amazon.com/Transparent-Society-Technology-Between-Freedom/dp/0738201448/sr=1-1/qid=1159621509/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-0192405-2962217?ie=UTF8&s=books\|Transparent Society] up on his reading list.)
Post #268,999 by hnick 9/30/06 10:42:15 AM Reply	Yeah, I was just being lazy. There are a lot of problems to address and homicide (killing lawyers and politicians is probably considered homicide, since they make the rules) is an inferior solution. So we have to create statesmen and leaders, as opposed to rulers. A real solution will take minimally, a complete generation and probably longer. We would require a generation that is not obsessed with television and sound bites and has an attention span longer than their toes. This is going to require somebody with money to restructure television content. Governments can't be trusted and having to trust a rich mans altruism to that extent makes my butt pucker. I suppose I could live with that as long as my eyes remain good so I can watch that sucker like a hawk. I'm not going to live long enough to see such a thing come about so this is also fantasy and not a real solution. Heinlein, in one of his books, probably "Moon is a harsh mistress", suggested lawmaking organs to be sturctured such that there is one group that required a 75% majority to pass laws, and a second group , working seperately, who repealed laws given a 50% majority. I may have the numbers wrong, but the idea was that if, say a quarter of the people disagreed with a law, it was probably a bad law and needed work. And if half the people wouldn't support an existing law, it was probably bad. There are a lot of details that could make or break it, but something like this might actually work in cutting down silly laws that do nothing. It would be a start. It would be nice to wrest control from government without a complete revolution. Revolutions are SO destructive and we barely have a working infrastructure as it is :( On the other paw, I could use the excersize...
Post #269,001 by Another Scott 9/30/06 11:12:15 AM Reply	I like it! [link\|http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Moon_Is_a_Harsh_Mistress\|The Moon is a Harsh Mistress] on WikiQuote: I note one proposal to make this Congress a two-house body. Excellent \ufffd- the more impediments to legislation the better. But, instead of following tradition, I suggest one house of legislators, another whose single duty is to repeal laws. Let the legislators pass laws only with a two-thirds majority... while the repealers are able to cancel any law through a mere one-third minority. Preposterous? Think about it. If a bill is so poor that it cannot command two-thirds of your consents, is it not likely that it would make a poor law? And if a law is disliked by as many as one-third is it not likely that you would be better off without it? Cheers, Scott. (Who just put it on The List.)
Post #269,004 by hnick 9/30/06 11:29:18 AM Reply	Nice link I'd forgotten a lot of those quotes. It's probably been 25-30 years since I read it. It could stand a re-read. Thanks for the link and the memory boost.
Post #269,020 by Ashton 9/30/06 4:31:09 PM Reply	The trouble (with you two) is - You are members of a teensy minority within a sea of the disinterested, the Very-easily amused - many of whom view 'shopping' as a near-daily recreation / also as placebo for an Authentic\ufffd^? life experience. Apparently the endorphins generated by the moments of the Buy-Buy frenzy aka POS, momentarily distracts from the deeper emotional poverty within the jelloware -- which lugubriously surfaces later, and is called (an epidemic now, I hear) depression. [pardon the technical description; beats saying, puerile Assholes!! a lot.] Where are the Stateswomen? Conventional wisdom conflates their absence with 'the failing educational system'. Trite non-specific - easily herringed-Red. I'd gussy that up a bit, substituting homogenization as the main culprit - massively abetted by the acceleration of robot-like machines, their 'efficiency' and its appeal to the MBA crowd - who know the price of everything, yada; (MBAs are drawn from the mediocre.. having failed the larger aim) - and who remain ignorant of history and of those things once called aspirations - except in the amassing of $$, natch. For humans to settle for incarceration in oppressive rectilinear pens - call that an Office and say, I want to be a businessperson and live there! - does, I think hint-at some root causes of the automaton-behavior migrating from the rilly-Profitable Machines ('cause they eliminate paying humans to Work - in any honorable, historically-imperative sense of Work!) The inexorable retraining of humans to asymptotically approach Machine Efficiency, that homogenization now suffuses Both worlds: passing osmotically across the thinner-than-ever man\|machine conceptual barrier. I wot. Who has time to read a (several?) 500-1000 pp. elderly work of Wisdom, ponder [in silence! - it used to be called Solitude]: when exhausted by the daily dehumanizing process - which began in the driveway, the creeping lines of mobile-stereo-dens enroute to: Incarceration, then paper-generating, pushing, shredding, biz-lying -- and the necessary pretense that, "Hey, I'm doing Important work here: See?! how busy I always Am?" It took lots more than some {fancied} deterioration in the enthusiasm, talent, Dedication of the Teachers of the Place -???- to set this dehumanizing trend into full acceleration. (Today they are required to teach craftiness, the sly innuendo of biz-lying: not the Classics. Remember those?) It took the morphing-into, embracing of Vulture Ethics-free Capitalism / or by any other academic name we love to invent, to lend credence. How does one ever put such a Behemoth into Reverse? Nuke and start all over? -- has unpleasant side effects, but our sloth and reduced-Imaginations of possibilities may actually make this the most likely scenario. All 'spasm-war' [a watchword of the '50s - still brand-New] needs is a few more years of Shrubbish being taken for 'governments of the people, by the yada'. And continued somnolence by the maxxed-out, frazzled CC holders. Are we half-way there or just ___? Let's also heed the Loonies who fervidly tell us about the prevert+committee who, after much bad acid cobbled up Revelations!-cha-cha, shall we? - many of The Lost are on this potent mind-eating drug. Sick-fantasy does not help reverse any behemoths either, I also wot. On the cheery side though, Piet Hein informs us that, Things that don't actually kill you outright, generally make you stronger :-) :-) Yeay!!! Yabut - what if it's an epidemic of lobotomies? Ooops - got a large tome to read w/ a cat-in-lap - Murica is today a rilly depressing thing to peer very closely at.. y'know? I could be wrong. I could.. give away one of the Geiger counters, I suppose - as a sign of meeting Colossal Dumbth half-way.. a little optimism perhaps? This just in: Baghday locked-down/curfew for a full day - seems a plan was afoot to bomb the Palatial Green Zone; these scum have no sense of Imperial Dignity whatsoever. What a Show. But ... schtupid -- Arte Johnson, RIP Murican Humor. Too.
Post #269,073 by inthane-chan 9/30/06 11:08:12 PM Reply	You got that quote wrong. That which does not kill you leaves you a gibbering, drooling wreck in an asylum. - InThane, who has been reading too much of Charles Stross's shots at horror lately for his own good. shudder Odoru aho ni miru aho! Onaji aho nara odoranya son son!

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