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IWETHEY Home / IWETHEY Board / Politics Forum / the presidents argument is clearly wrong
Post #267,704
by boxley
9/15/06 9:32:28 PM
Reply
New the presidents argument is clearly wrong
he claims that a program will have to stop because Good honest american men would be afraid of facing international war crime trials.

Bad shit happens in war. Unless it is egregious, no one is going on trial. If it is egregiously nescessary, then a good patriotic man will get it done and accept the inevitable consequences if one is caught.

That is how it was played many times in many ways since I was a kid trundling around strange places. The cold war operated on that principle. WW2 Korea and Viet Nam operated the same way. If it was outragious and nescessary shit slid unless it was discovered and disemminated to the world press. The someone got court marshalled or tried in federal court.

If you are scared of doing time, then you are already over the line and the information you have gotten do not justify the tactics used aand the program should be ended. Interogation can be done very quickly and effectivly without heavy violence.

I think the John Mc \ufffdain in this instance should be listened to. He has the nescessary understanding of the other side of the argument.
thanx,
bill

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #267,708
by bepatient
Picture of bepatient
9/15/06 9:56:27 PM
Reply
New Wrong? Possibly in extent he took it
saying he'll "just quit and go home"...but his point is valid...clarify what is allowed and not allowed..because in current environment with current press...NOTHING should be assumed to be "secret".

But if the rules say we have to give the guy cable, 3 hots and a cot and ask "have anything to tell me?" and when answered no..end of talk. Must admit..at that point...that if the worst the guy can expect is to be housed and fed for the rest of his life...we'll have folks lining up to go to Gitmo.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
Post #267,736
by imric
9/16/06 8:43:48 AM
Reply
New It's a long way
from abuse to 'give the guy cable, 3 hots and a cot and ask "have anything to tell me?" and when answered no..end of talk'.

The dichotomy you offer is the one the Neocons want to say is the only choice available, and that is UTTERLY wrong.
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
     Bush pushes on terrorism proposal - (JayMehaffey) - (77) - Sept. 15, 2006, 12:43:36 PM EDT
         What's to clarify? - (jbrabeck) - (63) - Sept. 15, 2006, 01:27:37 PM EDT
             What, specifically, do those things mean? - (bepatient) - (62) - Sept. 15, 2006, 02:52:40 PM EDT
                 Good points, but... - (jbrabeck) - (52) - Sept. 15, 2006, 03:18:17 PM EDT
                     You and I agree on the SH point - (bepatient) - (51) - Sept. 15, 2006, 04:08:01 PM EDT
                         That I would agree too. - (jbrabeck) - (50) - Sept. 15, 2006, 05:41:39 PM EDT
                             What two things are the admin pushing? - (Silverlock) - (49) - Sept. 15, 2006, 06:03:39 PM EDT
                                 Its not >re< definition - (bepatient) - (48) - Sept. 15, 2006, 09:49:23 PM EDT
                                     It's not that difficult, IMHO. - (Another Scott) - (36) - Sept. 16, 2006, 12:21:26 AM EDT
                                         Gimme a break on that - (bepatient) - (35) - Sept. 16, 2006, 12:47:51 AM EDT
                                             I think we're talking past each other. - (Another Scott) - (1) - Sept. 16, 2006, 10:02:52 AM EDT
                                                 Maybe not - (bepatient) - Sept. 16, 2006, 03:39:43 PM EDT
                                             be careful what you wish for.... - (Simon_Jester) - (32) - Sept. 16, 2006, 01:38:32 PM EDT
                                                 I am completely fine with that. - (bepatient) - (31) - Sept. 16, 2006, 03:50:53 PM EDT
                                                     It sure as hell ain't that churchly fornication thing - (Ashton) - Sept. 17, 2006, 05:58:53 AM EDT
                                                     What about when the "clarification" is used on US troops? - (Silverlock) - (29) - Sept. 17, 2006, 08:07:17 AM EDT
                                                         Considering the alternative - (bepatient) - (28) - Sept. 17, 2006, 10:08:56 AM EDT
                                                             What other people do doesn't matter. What we do does. - (pwhysall) - (3) - Sept. 17, 2006, 11:09:13 AM EDT
                                                                 Hear, hear! -NT - (imric) - Sept. 17, 2006, 01:31:10 PM EDT
                                                                 No argument. -NT - (bepatient) - Sept. 17, 2006, 02:49:18 PM EDT
                                                                 No. - (mmoffitt) - Sept. 18, 2006, 12:05:21 PM EDT
                                                             The altenative to waterboarding is beheading? - (imric) - (22) - Sept. 17, 2006, 01:30:30 PM EDT
                                                                 Who would be capturing our troops? - (bepatient) - (21) - Sept. 17, 2006, 02:50:28 PM EDT
                                                                     So friggin' what? - (imric) - (20) - Sept. 17, 2006, 05:13:31 PM EDT
                                                                         You are missing the point. - (bepatient) - (19) - Sept. 17, 2006, 10:12:07 PM EDT
                                                                             FOLLOW ALONG? - (imric) - (18) - Sept. 17, 2006, 10:28:06 PM EDT
                                                                                 lest I have to repeat myself again - (bepatient) - (17) - Sept. 17, 2006, 11:05:49 PM EDT
                                                                                     And that doesn't matter, dude. - (imric) - (16) - Sept. 17, 2006, 11:39:53 PM EDT
                                                                                         Its not a rationalization - (bepatient) - (15) - Sept. 17, 2006, 11:47:58 PM EDT
                                                                                             Allow me to repeat myself - (Silverlock) - (3) - Sept. 18, 2006, 12:02:46 AM EDT
                                                                                                 Why not, its more fun. -NT - (bepatient) - (2) - Sept. 18, 2006, 12:03:23 AM EDT
                                                                                                     You're troll-fu has been weak for awhile now - (Silverlock) - (1) - Sept. 18, 2006, 12:08:49 AM EDT
                                                                                                         Haven't hit the warning track yet. - (bepatient) - Sept. 18, 2006, 12:16:52 AM EDT
                                                                                             If it is a simple fact, - (imric) - (10) - Sept. 18, 2006, 07:09:34 AM EDT
                                                                                                 I think we've missed his point - (jbrabeck) - (2) - Sept. 18, 2006, 08:20:04 AM EDT
                                                                                                     Not quite. - (Another Scott) - (1) - Sept. 18, 2006, 08:33:54 AM EDT
                                                                                                         Nope, you haven't. - (bepatient) - Sept. 18, 2006, 08:43:46 AM EDT
                                                                                                 No - (bepatient) - (6) - Sept. 18, 2006, 08:42:48 AM EDT
                                                                                                     No, it doesn't. - (imric) - (5) - Sept. 18, 2006, 08:59:26 AM EDT
                                                                                                         All valid points - (bepatient) - (4) - Sept. 18, 2006, 09:27:22 AM EDT
                                                                                                             Please quote what you're responding to. - (Another Scott) - (3) - Sept. 18, 2006, 10:38:43 AM EDT
                                                                                                                 Your problem is with who you attribute the desire. - (bepatient) - (2) - Sept. 18, 2006, 11:49:06 AM EDT
                                                                                                                     That's what I was trying to say - (jbrabeck) - (1) - Sept. 18, 2006, 01:39:38 PM EDT
                                                                                                                         And my response was affirmative to you - (bepatient) - Sept. 18, 2006, 01:45:44 PM EDT
                                                             Technically speaking.... - (Simon_Jester) - Sept. 17, 2006, 01:30:56 PM EDT
                                     This is so inherently a fool's errand, though - - (Ashton) - (1) - Sept. 16, 2006, 05:08:34 AM EDT
                                         Exactly. - (Another Scott) - Sept. 16, 2006, 10:11:39 AM EDT
                                     Clarification defeats the purpose. - (Silverlock) - (8) - Sept. 16, 2006, 08:03:29 PM EDT
                                         Sure, I get it - (bepatient) - (7) - Sept. 16, 2006, 08:52:17 PM EDT
                                             Well, after all - (jake123) - Sept. 16, 2006, 09:21:31 PM EDT
                                             It's not like people aren't interrogated all the time. - (Another Scott) - (1) - Sept. 16, 2006, 09:56:53 PM EDT
                                                 Chuckle - (bepatient) - Sept. 16, 2006, 10:32:05 PM EDT
                                             How do you know they're terrorists? - (pwhysall) - (3) - Sept. 17, 2006, 03:09:50 AM EDT
                                                 Valid point. - (bepatient) - (2) - Sept. 17, 2006, 10:19:13 AM EDT
                                                     Oh, that's OK then. - (pwhysall) - (1) - Sept. 17, 2006, 11:06:06 AM EDT
                                                         That was nowhere near the point of that post - (bepatient) - Sept. 17, 2006, 02:51:48 PM EDT
                 Don't be evil -NT - (Silverlock) - Sept. 15, 2006, 03:21:48 PM EDT
                 the presidents argument is clearly wrong - (boxley) - (2) - Sept. 15, 2006, 09:32:28 PM EDT
                     Wrong? Possibly in extent he took it - (bepatient) - (1) - Sept. 15, 2006, 09:56:27 PM EDT
                         It's a long way - (imric) - Sept. 16, 2006, 08:43:48 AM EDT
                 Your being far to generous - (JayMehaffey) - (4) - Sept. 16, 2006, 06:05:26 PM EDT
                     Yes, and the fact that they can and Did proceed in this way - (Ashton) - (3) - Sept. 17, 2006, 05:34:40 AM EDT
                         Right...provable lies - (bepatient) - (2) - Sept. 17, 2006, 10:12:53 AM EDT
                             I never promised you a rose garden. -NT - (Ashton) - (1) - Sept. 18, 2006, 06:25:55 AM EDT
                                 I wouldn't want the job. -NT - (bepatient) - Sept. 18, 2006, 08:44:33 AM EDT
         Eventually he'll have to accept what he gets. - (a6l6e6x) - (1) - Sept. 15, 2006, 09:23:18 PM EDT
             I hadn't watched The McLauglin shout-extravaganza (PBS) much - (Ashton) - Sept. 16, 2006, 05:42:02 AM EDT
         everything old is new again (40KB image) - (rcareaga) - (4) - Sept. 16, 2006, 02:31:08 PM EDT
             WOW! - (lincoln) - (3) - Sept. 16, 2006, 05:04:59 PM EDT
                 Just lucky, I guess - (rcareaga) - (2) - Sept. 16, 2006, 05:36:38 PM EDT
                     Yes, I recognize that little girl - - (Ashton) - (1) - Sept. 17, 2006, 05:40:50 AM EDT
                         It's Ann Coulter -NT - (imqwerky) - Sept. 17, 2006, 11:48:37 AM EDT
         You know...this ignores the larger issue.... - (Simon_Jester) - (4) - Sept. 17, 2006, 01:45:06 PM EDT
             Shush! We gotta protect our Sekrets! - (Another Scott) - Sept. 17, 2006, 02:07:08 PM EDT
             What constitutes legal methods in GC and thus US law - (bepatient) - (2) - Sept. 17, 2006, 03:05:09 PM EDT
                 Have you seen the Senate Armed Services bill? - (Another Scott) - (1) - Sept. 17, 2006, 05:31:50 PM EDT
                     They shouldn't have caved there. - (bepatient) - Sept. 17, 2006, 10:14:38 PM EDT
         Tom Malinowski OpEd at the Washington Post. - (Another Scott) - Sept. 17, 2006, 11:42:07 PM EDT

It ran CP/M, I believe.
90 ms