Post #267,269
9/11/06 10:41:13 PM
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How Safe Are We?
You know, I was lying in bed last night thinking about the anniversary of 9/11 which is today. And as I was thinking, some very interesting thoughts came to me that I decided I wanted to share.
These days there's a statement echoing across the airwaves, TV, news papers, media etc... and it asks, "How safe are we?"
Of course it means since the events of 9/11, but the more I thought about it, the more it seemed like a meaningless question. I promise, I'll explain.
You see, back then, we weren't "safe" supposedly. But were we EVER really safe? I mean, what is safe? If safe means that we are safe from all harm, well it's a lie. No one is ever safe from all harm. I mean planes, cars, buses, boats, trains and most other forms of transportation, they can always be capable of crashing, sinking, or derailing. They can only be "so safe" and no safer.
People will always commit crimes like rape, assault and murder... are we safe from those? We can't ever be completely safe from people who are bent on doing us harm.
You aren't even necessarily safe if you just stay in your own home. It can be broken into, it can catch fire or blow up, you can trip and fall and get hurt. And walking on foot isn't safe either, you could get run over, trip and fall, etc.
So what is this concept of SAFE?
Well as I thought about it, I realized the word we need isn't the word safe. It's the word aware, or watchful, or ready.
Are we more aware of dangers that lurk since 9/11? I'd have to say yes. Are we more watchful, more alert? Ready for action more than we used to be? Again, I\ufffdd have to say yes. We can never truly be safe from all harm. That just isn't in the cards. But we can strive to be safer, yes, SAFER. And we do that by being alert, by noticing when something is out of place, by watching more carefully at night when out alone. We can do that by locking our cars and houses, installing alarms, not leaving our children unattended in cars, or our keys in the ignition.
We can make ourselves be safer by our actions. That is what 9/11 should have taught us all, that we are a large part of what keeps us safe. Yes, God watches over those who believe in him, and He also keeps us safe, but even God wants us to be careful and alert and watchful.
The terrorists want us to be one of two things. They either want us to be terrorized all the time and afraid to live our lives, or they want us to be lulled into a false sense of security and believe we are untouchable. Neither is the answer.
The answer to this is to live our lives, but live them while being more alert and aware of our surroundings. Feel safer, but never get the idea that nothing can touch you. Feel protected, set up measures of protection but always remember to not believe they are infallible.
The American people are safer since the attacks of 5 years ago. Safer than before, maybe, safer than way back, most certainly. But we're not just safer because the Homeland Security is watching out for us, or because of all the security measures that are now in place. We're safer because we are AWARE that this can happen again, and we are READY for it.
Years ago this concept would have terrified me, as I was someone who was terrorized for many months after 9/11. But now I recognize that the concept is simply the realization that we can make ourselves safer by our actions.
So remember. Mourn if you need to, cry if you want to, don't ever forget the victims of 9/11...
But always stay aware.
Brenda
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ****************************
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ***********************************
"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *********************************
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Post #267,271
9/11/06 11:12:15 PM
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You're a lot safer than
Spiceware and I am. Houston has the Port of Houston (still only 5 - 6% of all containers are inspected), all of the oil refineries and petrochemical plants, not to mention the network of oil and natural gas pipelines. If any of them get targeted, we're in for a heap of trouble, starting with toxic clouds that could be released into the air.
St. Louis, while not to be looked down on, has less population and in general less targetable industries in comparison. However, you do have the Arch, which is a target just like the Washington Monument is, and other such symbolic structures.
Basically, if you're all scared and worried, then congratulations - that's exactly how Shrub, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove and the rest of the neocons want you to be. And don't forget to vote a straight Republican ticket this coming November; otherwise, the terrorists will have won. ;-)
lincoln
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from." -- E.L. Doctorow
Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the United States.
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
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Post #267,273
9/11/06 11:32:22 PM
9/11/06 11:34:41 PM
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Re: You're a lot safer than
Basically, if you're all scared and worried, then congratulations - that's exactly how Shrub, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove and the rest of the neocons want you to be. And don't forget to vote a straight Republican ticket this coming November; otherwise, the terrorists will have won. ;-) I hope that wasn't the impression my post gave, that I'm all scared and worried. Not at all. In fact, I was shocked to discover that I wasn't even slightly jumpy today, as I expected to be. I even left my house and went about my life today, which is something I've avoided doing in the past on this date. That's what my post was about, making the point that I am no safer really than I was on 9/11/01, other than being more aware about my safety. And that was neat to discover, because I didn't spend the day looking up into the sky, and worrying. In fact, I never once looked up for a plane. Coming from me, after my traumatic reactions in the past, I was impressed. Oh and in regards to voting a straight ticket, even if I wanted to, I couldn't, because Missouri passed a law eliminating all straight ticket voting. ;) Brenda
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ****************************
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ***********************************
"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *********************************
Edited by Nightowl
Sept. 11, 2006, 11:34:41 PM EDT
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Post #267,277
9/11/06 11:54:24 PM
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Your post proves one thing
Risk analysis is something J. Random Person is very, very bad at.
Want to live longer/better?
1. Eat/exercise better 2. Drive better 3. Lift things properly 4. Don't smoke 5. Drink less 6. Avoid bad neighborhoods, lock your front door, etc ... 1000. Be vigilant for TEH TERRIARISTS
I don't give a thought to TEH TERRORISTS in my daily life. Fuck 'em. I'm not changing the way I go about my business for those fuckers.
But you...
Be pure.
Be vigilant.
BEHAVE.
Peter [link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
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Post #267,283
9/12/06 4:54:28 AM
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Life is one thing
you don't get out of alive.
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Post #267,284
9/12/06 5:32:56 AM
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How paranoid are we?
I have to agree with Peter - vigilance against terrorism has no significant effect. Only an existing, police surveillance or a military warning system could have prevented the WTC destruction. There is no way an individual can detect that kind of threat. You can better enforce security procedures, such as not allowing people to follow you through card controlled doors, but that hinders petty criminals, not terrorists. You cannot look for odd behaviour because plenty of people have odd styles, are having a bad day or are just plain different.
You cannot significantly reduce the risk of harm through terrorism except by not going to public places. And as the odds of terrorism hitting you are tiny as it is, not going to public places is not worth the reduced risk. Reminds me of one article writer who refuses to drive through tunnels, thus hindering his travelling for an infintesmal reduction of risk.
There is nothing useful you can do about terrorism, so the effort is pointless. Worse, the stress and paranoia hinders your life and health. Thus, you are doing the wrong thing.
Calmly assess the options, risks and benefits, resolve it to a conclusion, implement it and then STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT! Once a conclusion is reached and nothing is changing to suggest a re-evaluation, there is no need to devote any more brain power to it.
Matthew Greet
Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
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Post #267,338
9/12/06 2:12:20 PM
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Major nit.
Only an existing, police surveillance or a military warning system could have prevented the WTC destruction. Actually all it would have taken was for the "screeners" (read: fatass, least-common-denominator payrollers) at Logan to have done their job to prevent the WTC destruction. The thing people like Nightey and especially Der Berk et al seem to forget was that there was already enough "security" at the airports to have stopped the hijackings. All we needed is for that "security" to have actually done their jobs, and Berk-boy gets run out of office in 2004 for a failed domestic "policy", dropping the f-bomb in public and draping statues in the Capitol building.
jb4 "So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't." — Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
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Post #267,408
9/13/06 12:05:39 AM
9/13/06 12:26:51 AM
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Re: Major nit.
Only an existing, police surveillance or a military warning system could have prevented the WTC destruction.
...The thing people like Nightey and especially Der Berk et al seem to forget was that there was already enough "security" at the airports to have stopped the hijackings. All we needed is for that "security" to have actually done their jobs... BINGO! I haven't forgetten that, that is what I've been trying to say! That we aren't any safer now than we were then in regards to what the Government has done or will do, and that the concept of truly safe doesn't exist. And I was adding that when I came to that conclusion, the only thing I realized from it, was it is your actions that keeps you the safest, by being careful and protecting yourself when you can, NOT the Government. I was trying to write it in a sarcastic manner, but I'm not good at that I guess. ;) Ah well, I never was. Brenda
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ****************************
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ***********************************
"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *********************************
Edited by Nightowl
Sept. 13, 2006, 12:26:51 AM EDT
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Post #267,449
9/13/06 1:37:19 PM
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Use the Sign, Luke...
jb4 "So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't." — Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
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Post #267,510
9/14/06 12:22:34 AM
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Re: Use the Sign, Luke...
Sorry,
I don't know the html commands to create it. :)
Brenda
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ****************************
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ***********************************
"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *********************************
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Post #267,511
9/14/06 12:36:29 AM
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[sarcasm] is all you need (with WeeCodes on).
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Post #267,930
9/18/06 11:54:06 AM
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Don't forget airline policy.
Airline policy prior to 9/11 was to accommodate hijackers. When that changed, the chance of a repeat 9/11 involving airliners vanished.
bcnu, Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #267,932
9/18/06 12:03:14 PM
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Correct...so now MO is back to blowing them up in flight.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #267,948
9/18/06 12:31:45 PM
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Do we care?
Blowing up in flight is really not all that bad. Suppose all 4 airliners had been blown up instead of hitting their targets? Minor loss of life really, when one considers how many died in autos in September, 2001: 3,300
bcnu, Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #267,960
9/18/06 1:31:09 PM
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Reminds me of stat we quoted
when I worked in Army Payroll. 99.9% of the checks (pre direct deposit) were delivered on time.
And then some added... But what if you were the .1%...
In this case, do we care? What if it's you, your spouse, child, or parent(s) on board. Do we still not care?
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
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Post #267,969
9/18/06 2:07:37 PM
9/18/06 2:09:34 PM
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You missed my point, I think.
If we really cared about dead Americans, then we'd do something about using late 19th and early 20th century technology as our primary means of transportation in the 21st century. We lost 2800 to a terrorist attack in September, 2001. Our reaction? Shred the Constitution, elect a President and Vice President who actively lobby for torture, etc. ad mucho nauseum. But, the automobile kills more people each and every single month than terrorists did in that one month. Our reaction? Zip. Nada. IOW, "we" don't care.
{Edit: typo?)
bcnu, Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Edited by mmoffitt
Sept. 18, 2006, 02:08:50 PM EDT
Edited by mmoffitt
Sept. 18, 2006, 02:09:34 PM EDT
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Post #267,981
9/18/06 3:43:40 PM
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Must have
Thought you were advocating shooting down hijacked airplanes cuz loss of live was less than potential disaster.
Mea culpa
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
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Post #267,985
9/18/06 3:58:16 PM
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Rough deal on the passengers...
...but it'd make great TV.
You just know that someone at Fox has had that thought.
Peter [link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
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Post #267,987
9/18/06 4:04:59 PM
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Of course they have
Why else would the AirForce have new color cams installed in all the attack aircraft?
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
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Post #267,983
9/18/06 3:57:54 PM
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It's not the technology.
Fact is, American drivers crash a lot because they're badly educated.
We drive much the same cars (minus some of the true monsters) in more crowded conditions over here and we crash less. A lot less. About 10% as much, in fact.
The difference? We have harder, more rigorous driver testing (which is still inadequate, imho).
Peter [link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
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Post #267,986
9/18/06 4:03:32 PM
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American Driving Test
Part 1. The written test.
1) what color means stop? 2) What color means go? 3) What is your name?
If you get two right you pass.
Part II. The driving test
1) Start the car. 2) Turn on the lights. 3) Honk the horn. 4) Work the turn signals. 5) Drive around the block without hitting anything.
Get 80% or better to pass.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
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Post #267,999
9/18/06 6:49:36 PM
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dont drive around the block in georgia
setup of pylons, drive nose in, back in a 3 point turn to reverse then parrelel park on the next set of pylons. None of them go down you have a license. thanx, bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #267,993
9/18/06 5:46:25 PM
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I've always *Loved* the L-plate!
For Muricans -Learner == a big-L prominently displayed near license plate.
It's just so freaking Sane:
A new driver needs to be educated; the other drivers need to be warned. ..now throw in the Competitive Edge: that L- guy (especially) NEEDS to get that sucker off his Aston-Martin S.A.P. - so he graduates to the Hard test S.A.P. Duh.
Muricans just Do Not Get the really hard stuff - like this.
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Post #268,007
9/18/06 8:45:02 PM
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They don't do that in the US? Eek!
Here we have L's while you're learning, and nowadays we have a two phases of "P" (Provisional) plates. Red P-Plates for (at least) the first twelve months, and after passing another test, on to Green P-Plates for a further two years.
The tests I believe still aren't great, but probably an improvement from when I was learning to drive.
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
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Post #268,018
9/18/06 9:38:03 PM
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I suppose this can be overdone
But I (still) like the idea inculcated into the supplicant:
We Shall reTest you (twice yet.) Now if the tests aren't 'very good' - I guess I'd deem this a rare situation where even a crappy 'test' has the necessary psych effect. So your folks could, in time, clean up their act - we don't even Have an act.
We are absurd about this stuff.. driving today in US needs some of the wisdom of Nuvolari, Fangio - just to dodge the cell-zombies in suspended animation, so in love with the mouth. On-ramps need some real seat/pants basic physics Experience (real-slow/cautious is as bad as juvenile bravado.)
I no words.
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Post #268,021
9/18/06 9:59:58 PM
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when I drive here I assume that everyone on the road
is attempting to kill me. Keeps you alert and is probably inadvertantly true., thanx, bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #268,048
9/19/06 11:36:37 AM
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Agree. But that's not the only reason.
I'd wager that the average Murican spends a lot more time in an automobile than the average European. Part of it is cultural (we don't live in the bad cities, but work there. We live 30-50 miles away and the only means of transporation to/from work is our auto). Part of it is geography. But the biggest part, imo, is the absolutely insane "American love of the automobile." So intense is this ludicrous "love of the auto" here that it overrides the death and destruction this worst human invention has foisted upon us. Several years ago I went to Washington and saw the Viet Nam War Memorial with a friend. He said, "Look at that. Look at the waste, the ultimate stupidity." I replied, "Yes. But consider the size of the monument we'd have to erect to memorialize all the US dead from automobiles during the same period. It would be 15 times the size of this one. That's ultimate stupidity."
bcnu, Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #267,407
9/12/06 11:52:07 PM
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Not paranoid.
There is nothing useful you can do about terrorism, so the effort is pointless. Worse, the stress and paranoia hinders your life and health. Thus, you are doing the wrong thing. Calmly assess the options, risks and benefits, resolve it to a conclusion, implement it and then STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT! Once a conclusion is reached and nothing is changing to suggest a re-evaluation, there is no need to devote any more brain power to it. I'm not sure why anyone thinks I AM worrying about it. I was trying to be philosophical and sarcastic, but somewhere I caused you all to miss it. So read my last post (reply to Todd) and maybe it will be clearer. I was pondering, and posting, not worrying. :) Brenda
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ****************************
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ***********************************
"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *********************************
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Post #267,290
9/12/06 9:20:48 AM
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Finding the balance
The terrorists want us to be one of two things. They either want us to be terrorized all the time and afraid to live our lives, or they want us to be lulled into a false sense of security and believe we are untouchable. Neither is the answer.
The answer to this is to live our lives, but live them while being more alert and aware of our surroundings. Feel safer, but never get the idea that nothing can touch you. Feel protected, set up measures of protection but always remember to not believe they are infallible. This is a critical bit of understanding. Taking a rational balance between fear and saftey is something that many people fail at. Either they are very afraid, invariably with highly distorted ideas of what they should be afraid of, or they ignore the risks until a disaster happens. Thinking that the government should, or even can, protect us from all risks is as irrational as thinking the government shouldn't protect us from any at all. The American people are safer since the attacks of 5 years ago. Safer than before, maybe, safer than way back, most certainly. But we're not just safer because the Homeland Security is watching out for us, or because of all the security measures that are now in place. We're safer because we are AWARE that this can happen again, and we are READY for it. Actually we are probably less safe. The number of global terrorist attacks have been rising the entire time Bush has been in office. His botched invasions and simple minded foreign policy being a big part of the cause of this. Combine that with the fact that many of the prevenitive measures taken in the US are a waste of money and that integration into the Dept of Homeland Security has weakened much of the existing support structure. The end result is a rather ugly picture that suggests that the only reason there has not been another big attack in the US is that big attacks are rare. Jay
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Post #267,292
9/12/06 9:44:42 AM
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We *are* safer, or we *feel* safer?
Lots of people drive SUVs because they feel safer. The reason that if they're in an accident the larger car does better than the smaller car. They ignore the fact that SUVs are much more likely to be in one-car accidents, which are then more likely to result in fatalities. Statistically you are less safe in an SUV. But hey, they feel safer. Same thing with this administration. The things they do to make us feel safe actually make us less safe. No, we haven't been attacked by terrorists again. But boy, we really responded to that hurricane well, didn't we? It's a good thing we redirected FEMA to concentrate more on terrorism and less on natural disaster. That worked great. The American people are safer since the attacks of 5 years ago. Safer from what?
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #267,293
9/12/06 10:27:10 AM
9/12/06 10:52:16 AM
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But my point seems to be missed
I didn't say we were safer because of anything the government did.
I tried to expain that we are safer now because we have had our eyes opened and know there is danger. Sure, there was always danger, from everywhere, not just from terrorists, we just weren't as aware of that and weren't taking the steps to keep ourselves safe. Like someone said, many relied on the government to keep us safe, or the local authorities.
They still play a role, but the reason I said we are safer is because we are more aware today, "i.e. Yes it can happen to us" and we take steps to watch out for ourselves and our fellow men.
Yes, Katrina was a catastrophe, and people weren't safe from it, but at least in some areas we all pulled together to help them. In St. Louis when we had the blackout, that wasn't safe for everyone either, but we all worked to see that one another was safe and unhurt and had what they needed.
Quite simply my point was we are safer now because we are more aware and watchful, not because there are less attacks, I know there are more. We as individuals just have a higher tendency now to guard ourselves and our lives more effectively on a day to day level.
Edit: I just thought of a better way to say it. Every catastrophe that we experience, whether it be natural, manmade or planned and carried out, teaches us a little more about what to do to stay safer. Maybe that will help explain what I'm trying to get across.
Brenda
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ****************************
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ***********************************
"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *********************************
Edited by Nightowl
Sept. 12, 2006, 10:29:48 AM EDT
Edited by Nightowl
Sept. 12, 2006, 10:52:16 AM EDT
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Post #267,296
9/12/06 10:51:50 AM
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No, you're less safe, because the things the US have been
doing have caused a much larger number of people to want to do you harm.
That said, considering the odds (which are very tiny wrt terrorist actions), your safety is much more lessened because of gutting the Clean Air Act, gutting FEMA, gutting the CDC, gutting civil protections, etc... you have much more to be afraid of from your fellow citizens than you do from people in the Middle East.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #267,298
9/12/06 10:53:52 AM
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Great minds, etc.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #267,299
9/12/06 10:54:35 AM
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I tried to explain it again
It's not what the US is doing or how many people are trying to cause me harm.
It's a intelligence thing, and not the FBI, that's not what I mean. I mean we are smarter and learn more about how to stay safe from whoever might want to hurt us, or whatever catastrophe might occur.
I'm not referring to whether the world or country around us is safer, only myself. Only my ability to watch over myself, and other individuals to do same.
Brenda
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ****************************
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ***********************************
"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *********************************
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Post #267,300
9/12/06 10:56:40 AM
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And *I'll* explain again
You are not safer because of anything you are aware of.
You can not prevent a terrorist attack.
Believing that people may want to hurt us does not help.
You have no control over this.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #267,303
9/12/06 11:05:37 AM
9/12/06 11:07:31 AM
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Re: And *I'll* explain again
You are not safer because of anything you are aware of. You can not prevent a terrorist attack. Believing that people may want to hurt us does not help. You have no control over this. Safer doesn't mean you have any control over anything. It just means you are more able to keep yourself safer in event of something happening. I never said I could prevent an attack, nor have ever stated I am completely SAFE from the attack, I said I am safer than I used to be due to having gained knowledge that helps me stay safer and watch out for myself during ANY catastrophe. This is not just about terrorism, it's about safety in general. Sorry you don't seem to get it. Brenda
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ****************************
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ***********************************
"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *********************************
Edited by Nightowl
Sept. 12, 2006, 11:07:31 AM EDT
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Post #267,297
9/12/06 10:53:15 AM
9/12/06 10:54:46 AM
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No
We are not safer from terrorism because we are aware of anything. Anyone who wants to blow some of us up can, whether we are aware of it or not. The only thing we are possibly safer from is having a plane taken over. Nothing else. But thanks to what this administration has done we are less safe from anything that can't be tied to terrorism. You know, things that actually happen. - We are less safe from false imprisonment due to illegal searches.
- We are less safe from imprisonment without charge.
- We are less safe from being barred re-entry to the country we were born in.
- We are less safe from being denied free movement about the country.
- We are less safe from natural disasters, because we're focused on man-mad threats.
- We are less safe from poverty that could be prevented if we weren't pouring all our money down a bottomless hole called the War on Terror.
- We are less safe from stress-related disorders caused by constant threats made by our own "leaders".
In short no, we are not safer from a damn thing that's likely to happen. And we are much less safe from things that happen every day.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
Edited by drewk
Sept. 12, 2006, 10:54:46 AM EDT
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Post #267,302
9/12/06 11:01:59 AM
9/12/06 11:08:59 AM
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On an individual level only.
One more time.
*I* as a person am safer because I have a better awareness of the dangers around me in the world, whether they be manmade, natural or terrorism. Can I still be blown up, yes. Can I still be shot, yes. Can I still be in an accident, yes.
But I have taken more precautions, and not because I'm in fear for my life all the time, I've gotten past that initial reaction. I have taken those precautions because I have learned to protect myself better. I.e. avoid disasters when I can, by having safety measures in place, drive carefully, watch around me when walking to and from my car.
This isn't a statement about whether the world around me is safer, or whether I am safe, because as I explained in the original post, there is no actual safe. I am simply able to protect myself better than I used to because I am more aware.
The attacks of 9/11 were no different than Hurricane Katrina in that sense only, that they taught us "Yes this CAN happen to us." And hopefully next time, on an individual level, people will be more able to help themselves in such a disaster.
One more statement and I have to get offline today. In St. Louis, some people whined about there being no electricity for days. Some had no flashlights, no unperishable food, etc. They expected the government to come to their rescue.
Granted, the government should help some, but what are the odds now that after the disaster has hit, MORE people have working flashlights, have stored up non-perishable food and drinking water, etc. etc. I know I have increased my ability to handle that type of disaster, so therefore I learned.
That is my simple point. We learn more about how to protect ourselves with each experience we encounter, and therefore we are safer in that respect only. Not in regards to the world or country or city around us.
Brenda
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ****************************
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ***********************************
"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *********************************
Edited by Nightowl
Sept. 12, 2006, 11:08:59 AM EDT
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Post #267,305
9/12/06 11:21:55 AM
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I think what you are talking about is confidence
The more adversity you survive, the more confident you are about surviving the next. It's not the same as being safer, but it may feel like it. On the other paw, maybe this isn't what you're talking about. In which case never mind
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Post #267,306
9/12/06 11:25:56 AM
9/12/06 11:27:18 AM
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Confidence, that works too. :)
The more adversity you survive, the more confident you are about surviving the next. It's not the same as being safer, but it may feel like it. That word seems to work too. :) Just add onto that the fact that the knowledge of how to take care of myself and protect myself brings that confidence that I can cope or get through it, or watch out for dangers more readily. :) But yes, the word confidence works when stated as "I have more confidence because I have gained more knowledge to use in those situations." Brenda
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ****************************
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ***********************************
"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *********************************
Edited by Nightowl
Sept. 12, 2006, 11:27:18 AM EDT
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Post #267,719
9/15/06 10:22:51 PM
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Re: On an individual level only.
*I* as a person am safer because I have a better awareness of the dangers around me in the world, whether they be manmade, natural or terrorism. Can I still be blown up, yes. Can I still be shot, yes. Can I still be in an accident, yes. Your awareness does not raise your safety level. You are less safe because your government has reduced your safety level in the name of the Wah on Terrah. Drewk explains above. The risks that have increased are those which you cannot influence. Have a nice day.
Peter [link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal] [link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
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Post #267,354
9/12/06 3:47:33 PM
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An accurate beginning-list,
at least around the nebulous idea of 'safety'.
But around the idea of damage done by this Confederacy of Dunces Believe that title has been taken..
(Damage: to whom / by whom / to what effect?) - as surely relates to a sense of er, psychic? 'safety' within one's daily environment -
Believe that mere prose can only hint at the toxicity of these slime, compounded unquantifiably by the fact that: all Institutions failed to act upon basic tenets of the Country's founding principles!
Worst of all, within this dirty snowball of expectations: the vast plurality of Peepul Didn't Even Notice! - the magnitude of the lies, spin, and the underlying but Clear disdain of this cabal: for *Them*, in every sense of the relationship of a government to its 'governed'.
This is the stuff of Greek tragedy, and all we have around are the pipsqueaks of mundane carping. (Yeah too.. we all suffer for the loss of Irony as a viable tool..)
Now we are all forced to consider, in one form or another, the question -- does there remain much here today, actually Worth 'dying for'? .. when you have to pause and think a while, before replying: that's what I Mean.
Screw 'safety'; what we lack is Integrity - slaves usually are! 'kept safe' by Owners: they're a valuable commodity (and a source of protein, after their production declines.)
Soylent Wolfowitz?
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Post #267,334
9/12/06 2:03:35 PM
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You spelled it wrong, Nightey
When our pResident utters that phrase, it's "How Safe Is We?"
Get it right...it's a Cowardly new World!
jb4 "So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't." — Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
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Post #267,343
9/12/06 2:31:08 PM
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As safe as ever
which is - not very.
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
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Post #267,404
9/12/06 11:47:34 PM
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But see, that was my point
We have NEVER been safe, not completely, because it's not something we or anyone else have any control of.
But we can keep ourselves safer by taking better care of ourselves, and using the information we gain to help protect us and watch out for ourselves.
So I was trying to say, (sarcastically, without actually saying it), that the concept of "safe" is an illusion, and all I was saying is the only measure of control you have about safety is how safe you make things for yourself, not how safe you ARE in any given country, state or city. And that still isn't SAFE because it doesn't exist.
Other people in other groups got that I was trying to be sarcastic, or something like that, but I somehow failed to get it across here. Sorry about that.
One more example and then I'll surrender, I guess, since you still seem to think I'm talking only about being safe from terrorism, which wasn't my point. All the terrorism concept did was put the phrase in my head over the past few days, which was when I realized it was a meaningless phrase and why.
Here's my example: I fell down the basement stairs twice in the dark during the St. Louis Blackout. Luckily, I wasn't hurt too badly. However, I learned from that experience, and we found a flashlight that I can wear around my neck now when I have to carry things down the stairs in a blackout, that points at the stairs so I can see them.
That is what my point was trying to be. If something happens that teaches you you aren't prepared enough for it, or aren't as safe as you could be, you learn to adapt to be better prepared and better protected if you can.
In short, the concept of being safe is indeed an illusion that the government created, when in fact no one can ever be truly safe from all harm. It's something they have tried to sell us, but I'm not buying it. ;)
Brenda
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ****************************
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ***********************************
"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *********************************
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Post #267,412
9/13/06 12:32:42 AM
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The Earth will be swallowed by the Sun.
But you and I won't be around to see it. We have NEVER been safe, not completely, because it's not something we or anyone else have any control of. Living things die. They always will. I think part of the reason why you weren't understood is that you're mixing up several issues. There's the issue of relative risk. There's the issue of personal awareness of one's environment. There's the issue of our government's actions and inactions. Lumping them all in a discussion of whether one is "safe" invites misunderstanding. I don't think that 9/11 or Katrina made most of us change our thinking about personal safety too much. Here's my example: I fell down the basement stairs twice in the dark during the St. Louis Blackout. Luckily, I wasn't hurt too badly. However, I learned from that experience, and we found a flashlight that I can wear around my neck now when I have to carry things down the stairs in a blackout, that points at the stairs so I can see them. Something else that you might want to look into is some [link|http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/13-41-night-lights/moon-light-5-1-2--620668.aspx|Moon Lights] - they're battery operated, and you won't need to remember to have a flashlight with you. Cheers, Scott.
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Post #267,413
9/13/06 1:41:48 AM
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Thanks, that helps :)
I think part of the reason why you weren't understood is that you're mixing up several issues. There's the issue of relative risk. There's the issue of personal awareness of one's environment. There's the issue of our government's actions and inactions. Lumping them all in a discussion of whether one is "safe" invites misunderstanding. I see that now. I was only using the 9/11 phrase we've heard for days, "How Safe Are We?" because it was what struck the lightbulb in my head that here our Government is promising us we can be safe, when no Government has that sort of power to keep every single person in the US from all harm. Granted, they were probably only talking about safe from terrorism, but I was struck by the word "safe" and found it to be one of those meaningless words that The Tyranny Of Words describes, and Ashton loves to explain. That's when it hit me that we can never truly be safe, only safer, and usually by our own design, not by relying on others. Sorry for the confusion. I don't think that 9/11 or Katrina made most of us change our thinking about personal safety too much. It made me change mine, in a sense. It made me realize how UNSAFE we were in some cases, and how just relying on the Government was not the answer, and I'm proud to state that I coped fairly well with the blackout in St. Louis because I was prepared up to a point. And the things I learned that I was unprepared about, I've since remedied when possible. :) Something else that you might want to look into is some [link|http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/13-41-night-lights/moon-light-5-1-2--620668.aspx|Moon Lights] - they're battery operated, and you won't need to remember to have a flashlight with you. I'll check it out, thanks! Brenda
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ****************************
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ***********************************
"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *********************************
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