Post #247,658
3/12/06 2:26:45 PM
8/21/07 6:29:35 AM
|
Website launched, comments appreciated.
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com/|http://www.objectiveclips.com/]
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #247,659
3/12/06 2:35:16 PM
|
Impossible to read.
1) Dark green on black is impossible to read.
2) IMO, small serif fonts in a browser are impossible to read.
3) Black backgrounds in general make everything more difficult to see.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #247,661
3/12/06 3:46:14 PM
|
Not for me
Annoying, but not impossible.
And the font size issue is cured by ^+
But yeah, first glance it is pretty much yucky.
|
Post #247,662
3/12/06 4:09:21 PM
|
OK, maybe not impossible, but very difficult.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #247,930
3/14/06 4:07:39 PM
3/14/06 4:11:07 PM
|
Me, neither...
...but then I am hopelessly AR about my visual environment. I have Firefox set to override colors of both text and link, and I don't allow web pages to override the colors. So I see navy blue text on a light gray background. Very readable. YMMV....
(You should see my "standard" Windows colors! And don't get me started about syntax-enhancing editor colors....)
jb4
"Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'."
&mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Edited by jb4
March 14, 2006, 04:11:07 PM EST
|
Post #247,660
3/12/06 3:22:29 PM
|
It looks very 1997.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #247,671
3/12/06 7:03:40 PM
8/21/07 6:30:06 AM
|
Thanks!
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #247,663
3/12/06 5:01:45 PM
|
Some comments.
1) I'm seeing white san-serif text on a black background, with some green san-serif text. It's readable here. But it's more traditional these days to use a light background with dark text. As Peter says, black backgrounds were vastly over-used and now look dated. I'd suggest a more traditional fore/back color combination. Making the line lengths shorter by breaking the page up into smaller regions would also make it much easier to read. (Remember why newspapers have columns.)
2) The page is very difficult to scan at a glance and know where to get more information. There aren't immediately obvious sections or navigation menus. People are lazy - you shouldn't expect them to know they need to scroll down to find out answers to questions. Bold green text as section headings is too different from what most people expect, I think. It seems to be accepted now (just based on a gut feeling) that scrolling on the first page should be minimized, so you may want to put at least some of the sections you have now on separate pages.
3) I wouldn't put Google ads so close to the top of the page. It looks like you're more interested in advertizing than telling about your software. If you do put them at the top, put a box around them or something so that the reader knows where the ads end. I don't think people mind them on the right side or bottom of the page.
Take a look at these pages: [link|http://www.ultraedit.com|UltraEdit], [link|http://perso.wanadoo.fr/pierre.g/xnview/enhome.html|XnView], [link|http://www.bitlogic.co.uk/products_borland.htm|BitLogic's Borland Products], [link|http://www.halegroves.com/|Hale Groves], and [link|http://www.us.playstation.com/|PlayStation]. Those sites promote a lot of different things, but it's immediately obvious where you should go for more information if you've never been there before. None of them use a black background. Even [link|http://www.idsoftware.com|Id] doesn't use black any more. :-)
My $0.02. Hope this helps a bit. Good luck!
Cheers,
Scott.
|
Post #247,677
3/12/06 8:23:20 PM
|
Id looked pretty black to me
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
Post #247,686
3/12/06 11:03:28 PM
|
(It wasn't 000000 black. It was a bitmap of some sort...)
|
Post #247,687
3/12/06 11:31:09 PM
|
Close enough
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
Post #247,679
3/12/06 9:02:05 PM
8/21/07 6:30:08 AM
|
I can't say I like any of the ones you pointed me to
They have a couple things in common - tiny gray text in lots of little boxes. I'd prefer larger.
Second, it seems a bit silly to have a navigation scheme for a single page.
Clearly I need professional help on this design thing - now if I could just find a designer who returned phone calls....
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #247,684
3/12/06 10:29:01 PM
3/13/06 9:46:35 AM
|
Personally, I feel like I am in the wayback machine.
I'd like to point you to some design that are very nice: [link|http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.saletto.com/Peppers/sample.css|Peppers], [link|http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://hamrai.tollfreepage.com/waverly.css|Waverly], [link|http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.manuelbieh.de/kram/dortmund-ubahn.css|Subway Station], [link|http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.ic-more.com/zen/sample.css|A Corporate Feel], [link|http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=/094/094.css|Deco], [link|http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.pixelcarnage.com/projects/raystarelite/styles/screen.css|Raystar], [link|http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://previews.redrotate.de/csszengarden_spider/sample.css|Spider]
This is just to point a few out.
I'd like to thank the CSS Zen Garden.
edit: I'd like to remind you when going to CSS Zen Garden, the only difference in the different themes is the css. The [link|http://csszengarden.com/zengarden-sample.html|HTML/XHTML] is all the same. This makes the point that CSS is the brush of an artist, whether a good artist or bad, still CSS is divorced from the content, used only for the presentation.
There are some pretty wicked COOL and wicked BAD and Wicked TERRIBLE CSS desins there. The point is to show the flexibility to completely/radically change a site with one click. Combine that with AJAX, you've got a whole new ball of wax that many people can't comprehend.
P.S. I'd agree that Subway Station is a bad choice for EVERYONE, but it was presented in a general context for showing an example of a well layed out site. Though it being designed for a much wider screen than *MANY* people have. I still prefer sites designs with NO Specific screen size in mind, that way the presentation isn't ruined in not thought of ways.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
Edited by folkert
March 13, 2006, 09:46:35 AM EST
|
Post #247,685
3/12/06 11:02:36 PM
|
Neat. Dave seems to know what he's doing.
|
Post #247,689
3/12/06 11:39:11 PM
|
OMFG, that Mozart one is...
...fucking [link|http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=/189/189.css&page=0|COOL-ASS SHIT]. (*)
(*) Couldn't put that in the title.
-YendorMike
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
|
Post #247,690
3/12/06 11:43:34 PM
|
Diary is pretty cool, too
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
|
Post #247,692
3/12/06 11:47:46 PM
8/21/07 6:30:19 AM
|
Black - its all black
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #247,703
3/13/06 6:34:05 AM
|
None more black
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #247,691
3/12/06 11:44:20 PM
8/21/07 6:30:17 AM
|
Subway Station is a nightmare
too wide - no horizontal scroll bar becomes available - totally unreadable.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #247,693
3/12/06 11:57:10 PM
|
Looks fine at 1400x1050. Can see it would be problematic...
|
Post #247,807
3/13/06 6:51:03 PM
|
Going OT perhaps, but most of those are terrible
When the CSS Zen Garden first came out, I thought most of the participants were cheating, if not against the letter, then at least against the spirit of the contest. From looking at these examples, it doesn't look like things have improved.
How? Almost every single one uses display:none to disable whole chunks of HTML and replace it with bitmapped rendering of the text. IMHO, that invalidates the "still CSS is divorced from the content, used only for the presentation" claim as it now puts the content squarely on the layout side.
|
Post #247,813
3/13/06 7:45:52 PM
8/21/07 6:32:09 AM
|
I have begun soliciting quotes
from real designers as I clearly have not talent for it.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #247,843
3/13/06 10:32:11 PM
|
Re: I have begun soliciting quotes
[link|http://www.mr-anderson.net/objclips/|http://www.mr-anderson.net/objclips/]
Looks pretty much the same in Firefox, IE, and Safari, excepting that the code section font looks like ass in Safari because it doesn't seem to support monospace font families properly.
My suggestion: break the main page up so you have "Intro", "Examples", "FAQ", and "Download" (with production and beta releases, both binary and source, MD5 signatures, etc., like a proper OSS site) and put links to them in the (rudimentary) menu bar on the left. Dump the inline images for the "Who's Using It" and "Books" sections, too, or float them off to the right or something. Probably a "Links" section in the menu as well with all the fscript links and so on.
And dump that HTML generator you're using... holy crying whitespace does it do a crappy job. :-P I didn't do too much repair because I didn't want to spend more than 20 minutes on it.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #247,863
3/14/06 1:23:52 AM
8/21/07 6:34:43 AM
|
So where did you get the art?
Because I don't want any issues with art "borrowing". Also, which graphics editor did you use?
It seems to me that the nifty low end easy art tools we used to have on the Mac have gone by the wayside - either you have to bite the bullet and learn something fairly complex, or you get really lame paint tools with no transparency controls.
The "HTML generator" is TextEdit. It *was* a text document I just "saved as HTML" one day and have been hacking on since.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #247,884
3/14/06 7:23:47 AM
|
Fails W3 validation, though
I leave it to your judgment whether the 13 errors are significant or not.
[link|http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mr-anderson.net%2Fobjclips%2F|http://validator.w3....net%2Fobjclips%2F]
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #247,888
3/14/06 8:47:37 AM
|
Like I said, it needs some work.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #247,889
3/14/06 8:50:22 AM
|
Fairy nuff.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #247,887
3/14/06 8:46:04 AM
|
Re: So where did you get the art?
It's Google Image. I used GIMP.
But basically all you need to do is take a picture of a circuit board, blur it (Gaussian blur), tilt it (map object), and fade the end (transparent eraser).
I figured it was something like TextEdit, given the "Cocoa HTML Generator" meta tag.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #247,899
3/14/06 10:00:10 AM
|
Arts and the Mac
An excellent source for art (photo, illustration & animation) is [link|http://www.istockphoto.com/index.php|iStockphoto]. Prices begin at a buck per image (lo-res, suitable for the sort of use you have in mind), to three and five dollars for medium and high, respectively. Most of the "Diebold Variations" were built around iStock pictures. As to "low end easy art tools," if I didn't already own Photoshop I would make haste to acquire "Photoshop Elements" for about a c-note—by all accounts it's an excellent value (unlike the execrable "Photoshop LE" of the 1990s), and it would certainly suffice for anything you might essay in the web graphic line.
cordially,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
|
Post #247,900
3/14/06 10:05:12 AM
|
Photoshop Elements 3 is excellent
I have the Mac version (about forty of my English pounds) and it's just the daddy for low-end image work.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #247,932
3/14/06 4:34:05 PM
8/21/07 6:35:51 AM
|
Two good tips - I'll give it a look
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #247,883
3/14/06 7:22:10 AM
|
Ping ubernostrum
He's good at it, and he's a purist when it comes to Doing It Right.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #248,113
3/16/06 2:01:35 PM
8/21/07 6:39:23 AM
|
This might be the answer
[link|http://www.freewebsitetemplates.com/|http://www.freewebsitetemplates.com/]
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
|
Post #248,118
3/16/06 2:27:19 PM
|
terms of service are a beatch, I wouldnt use it
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
|
Post #248,120
3/16/06 2:28:14 PM
8/21/07 6:39:32 AM
|
There are many more like that around
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
|
Post #248,123
3/16/06 2:34:14 PM
|
Yes, because...
... the free one I did for you suxsomuch. :-P
Make sure the free one has CSS for code sections, etc.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #248,126
3/16/06 3:00:07 PM
8/21/07 6:39:40 AM
|
Its kind of .... unfinished.
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
|
Post #248,128
3/16/06 3:03:35 PM
|
Er, yeah... that was the point.
Here's a design, here's where it's insufficient, here's the stuff you still need to do. It's still a step up from the current one, IMO.
But hey, you're welcome for attempting to help you at all, eh?
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
|
Post #248,131
3/16/06 3:39:19 PM
8/21/07 6:39:53 AM
|
It is a step up - thanks.
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
|
Post #248,129
3/16/06 3:07:42 PM
|
So finish it, you ingrate.
Why would anyone do anything for you, if that's the thanks they get?
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #248,130
3/16/06 3:37:04 PM
8/21/07 6:39:51 AM
|
'cause I have no faith in my ability to take it there?
I'll give it a bang this weekend, but seriously I have not faith in my ability to not fuck it up.
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
|
Post #248,132
3/16/06 3:41:17 PM
|
I'm sure you know we love critiquing things.
We'll help you get it right.
Cheers,
Scott.
|
Post #248,133
3/16/06 3:55:37 PM
8/21/07 6:39:55 AM
|
Yeah, but this is beginning to resemble the flame forum
Anyhow, I am using Scott's page for now, but it is still rough in a few spots (as one would expect with 20 minutes of work). I don't have time to finish it just now as I'm a bit busy fending off the sharks.
[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]
[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]
[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
|
Post #248,139
3/16/06 4:59:23 PM
|
Understood.
|
Post #248,183
3/17/06 7:12:26 AM
|
There's a reason for that.
When someone takes time out to do something for you, at no benefit to themselves, unasked, then it's mighty churlish to turn round and say "that's not good enough". The correct response is "cheers! Thanks muchly!" and then you go off and use it or not as you see fit.
I can't believe that I'm actually explaining this.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #248,228
3/17/06 11:13:17 AM
|
Cheers! Thanks muchly!
stupid *git*
/me hopes Ptr knows this is a Joke.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
|
Post #248,261
3/17/06 1:34:45 PM
|
This one is fully operational
Spacetelescope.org's [link|http://www.spacetelescope.org/about/further_information/techdocs/pdf/simplicity.pdf|Simplicity] design.
You may have to supply your own art, but there's not really much of it. It also still sins against the "don't use tables for layout rule" but it doesn't seem to go a million levels deep either.
|
