The 'remedy' is simple: convert or die.

Post #246,072 by Andrew Grygus 2/24/06 2:15:55 PM Reply	The 'remedy' is simple: convert or die. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #246,085 by jb4 2/24/06 4:10:48 PM Reply	Of course. The hallmark of all enlightened people is... ...how they handle those who are less enlightened. Given this measure, one would rate the enlightenment quotient of Islam at a vanishingly small number. systems, your [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=246014\|protestations] about what ben_tilly wrote regarding Islam being spread by the sword ring more than a little hollow.... jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Post #246,172 by systems 2/25/06 6:50:14 PM 2/25/06 6:58:29 PM Reply	jb4 jb4 you asked: And what is Islam's "remedy" for followers of such religions? what do you mean, i dont understand your question specially since it comes after quoting me saying "la illah illa Allah" ... which translates to "there is no God but God" ... if I believe that, there is no God but God, how do you think i should state, of should i not, fearing i would offend others !!! Anyway, read verse 6:108 , 6 is the surah number, 108 is the number of the verse inside the surah, the Koran is composed of surah(s) , which are compsed of verses, or in other words, composed of verses, which were grouped into surah(s) you can use this link to find verse 108 in surah 6 [link\|http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/006.qmt.html\|http://www.usc.edu/d...uran/006.qmt.html] How i understand it says , we should not insult the disbelievers, so they dont in turn insult God, and this would be because they dont really know or understand As for the figthing part, the i think verse may clear few thinks up verse 2:190 [link\|http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html\|http://www.usc.edu/d...uran/002.qmt.html] Its clear, God, doesn't love transgressors, but, when we have too, we should fight ... makes sense, its practical and pragmatic put in mind, this is what was in he Koran for the past 1400 + years, the Koran never changed ... so i didnt make it up just for this conversation, this is very very very very very old this was at the time, where arabs killed their newly born female children, fearing they would be captured and turned into slaves how many ppl today, insult muslims in their faith and call it conversation, and think they are funny and you also said: systems, your protestations [*] about what ben_tilly wrote regarding Islam being spread by the sword ring more than a little hollow.... I am having difficulties understanding the english expression .... rings more than a little hollow... what does you mean! is this good bad, i am not sure ... in the same thread i furthur clarified what was making me feel bad, hope it helped Edited by systems Feb. 25, 2006, 06:56:47 PM EST Edited by systems Feb. 25, 2006, 06:58:29 PM EST Expand All History
Post #246,174 by ChrisR 2/25/06 7:07:38 PM Reply	Must be an Islamic thing... ...to write one paragraph sentences for the sake of emphasis?
Post #246,176 by broomberg 2/25/06 7:29:58 PM Reply	Nah, I do it also.
Post #246,178 by broomberg 2/25/06 7:34:12 PM Reply	You make it all sound so simple. (new thread) Created as new thread #246177 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=246177\|You make it all sound so simple.]
Post #246,184 by Another Scott 2/25/06 8:54:02 PM Reply	How do you read Quran 5:10? (new thread) Created as new thread #246183 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=246183\|How do you read Quran 5:10?]
Post #246,204 by a6l6e6x 2/26/06 12:18:43 AM Reply	So Muslims that want to destroy Israel are sinners? 002.047 YUSUFALI: Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other (for My Message). PICKTHAL: O Children of Israel! Remember My favour wherewith I favoured you and how I preferred you to (all) creatures. SHAKIR: O children of Israel! call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and that I made you excel the nations. I'm just curious. Alex When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
Post #246,348 by systems 2/28/06 3:41:16 AM 2/28/06 3:59:48 AM Reply	Re: So Muslims that want to destroy Israel are sinners? I was reluctant to reply, for many reasons, reading and interpreting the Koran should be taken with care, you don't want to claim that God said something that God didn't Also your comment have a bad ... I dont know how to explain, a bad feeling probaly. You know islam been around for almost 1400 years, and it was studies rigourously and have a huge literature and you can find thousands of books writen to explain islam, so when u read a verse and think of an obviously wrong or bad meaning of it, consider giving islam and muslims the benefit of doubt, probably one scholar along the years felt the same way, and found an answer or asserted your doubt. So similar to what ppl say to ppl who ask naiive programming questions, did you read the manual, did you search the web. I know you probably dont have time for this, but since you dont, please dont just assume and answer, or assume you got it right I am not a muslims scholar, and i dont claim to be one, i am representing myself as a guy from the other side, and ... thats all Anyway, I dont think its always a sin to attack israelies, they dont have special protection There are justifiable attacks (self defense) and unjustifiable attacks (aggression) Being israeli won't give you special protection, being israeli according to this verse, probably means they have greater responsibilities and less excuses, but then to give a full and complete interpretation i need to research aaaand I dont have time for this now Whether israelies are aggressors or not, is a different debate ... Edited by systems Feb. 28, 2006, 03:59:48 AM EST Expand All History
Post #246,362 by jb4 2/28/06 9:55:20 AM Reply	Nice dodge...gambit rejected Systems, this is a 'did you or did you not have sex with that woman' moment...and you flunked. jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Post #246,381 by a6l6e6x 2/28/06 1:36:47 PM Reply	Thanks for responding. I well knew it would be difficult... for you. Old synagogues in Cairo and Baghdad tell me that Jews have had some protection from persecution in the Muslim world. Alex When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
Post #246,427 by broomberg 2/28/06 8:26:17 PM Reply	That's because Jews don't proselytize. As long as they accept they are "lower" than the Muslims, at least publicly, and don't proselytize, they are tolerated.
Post #246,445 by a6l6e6x 2/28/06 11:35:52 PM Reply	And everyone should follow their example! :) The "lower than" part is of course not right. Alex When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
Post #246,274 by jb4 2/27/06 2:14:29 PM Reply	When something "rings hollow" (or is said to "have a hollow ring about it"), it's truth is suspect; the listener to it doesn't believe that the speaker is earnest in speaking it. (The derivation, I believe, has to do with making castings, specifically bells, in the early Industrial Age, where molding and casting techniques were not as refined as now. A bell or other casting that had a "hollow ring" to it was thought to have a flaw or imperfection that could not be seen, but could be heard in the vibrations of it when struck.) In this particular case, I'm refering to your seeming offense at ben_tilly's use of the term, "Islam being spread by the sword", when you yourself have acknowledged that Islam was indeed foisted upon various Infidels with the implicit and/or explicit threat of bodily harm. jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Post #246,088 by admin 2/24/06 4:29:29 PM Reply	The irony is it's not supposed to be that way. Way back when, they were quite tolerant of Christians and Jews because that's what the Quran told them to do. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #246,092 by jb4 2/24/06 5:01:51 PM Reply	I guess somebody 'lost' that script.... How convenient! jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Post #246,094 by Andrew Grygus 2/24/06 5:15:26 PM Reply	But we were talking polytheists here . . . . . I haven't heard they ever had any admonitions against killing those folks. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #246,100 by admin 2/24/06 5:39:20 PM Reply	Yep, my bad. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #246,103 by broomberg 2/24/06 6:58:51 PM Reply	Define "tolerant" Meaning, they allowed them to live as long as they didn't says anything that could be considered a contradiction of Islam?
Post #246,109 by ben_tilly 2/24/06 8:38:06 PM Reply	By the standards of the day, that was generous I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

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