I'm having a tough time reconciling...

Post #245,617 by rcareaga 2/21/06 1:24:24 PM Reply	I'm having a tough time reconciling... "history buffs, of which I'm one" with The Industrial Revolution (not sure on this, was it the era of Titanic?) —truly I am. From the evidence you provide, you are a "history buff" only in the sense that I am an astronaut. That said, most of Steve Lowe's suggestions will serve you. A spinning wheel might evoke the colonial era; gangsters with tommy guns evoke the seamier side of the twenties. You're about a century off on the industrial revolution—an early steam engine (or an early steam locomotive), Blake's "dark satanic mills," soaring brick factory chimneys belching coal smoke...think "combustion." Fifties, yeah, he's nailed it; a "car hop" would convey the time; Space Age historically construed could be anytime from 1957 to 1969; icons of the period were sputnik, space capsules, Saturn V and Armstrong/Aldrin on the moon. Baby boomers have been annoying the adjacent generational cohorts for decades, but you could do worse than fetch some psychedelic typography, a peace symbol and a nice fat green marijuana leaf by way of graphic shorthand. I am reinforced, though, in an existing conviction, dear Brenda, that you must have been raised in a wicker basket. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #245,642 by jb4 2/21/06 4:48:21 PM Reply	ICLRPD (new thread) Created as new thread #245641 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=245641\|ICLRPD] jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Post #245,663 by inthane-chan 2/21/06 6:33:54 PM Reply	Y'know Rand, it strikes me... ...that to you, the mere existence of somebody like Nightowl is as much an affront to you as vacuum is to the universe - something that you know exists, and you tolerate it's existence because you can't do anything about it. Were it up to you, you'd fill that existence up with substance until there was no more... When somebody asks you to trade your freedoms for security, it isn't your* security they're talking about.*
Post #245,671 by rcareaga 2/21/06 6:42:05 PM Reply	not an affront just deeply...perplexing. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #245,672 by CRConrad 2/21/06 6:42:14 PM Reply	What, YM such stupendous ignorance is NOT an affront to you?
Post #245,674 by Steve Lowe 2/21/06 6:49:45 PM 2/21/06 6:50:35 PM Reply	Affront? No. Perplexing is almost it - sad is probably closest. However, she DOES make quite an effort to become less ignorant, and for that I give her an immense amount of credit. Edit: but then you didn't ask me, sorry. :) -- Steve [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu] Edited by Steve Lowe Feb. 21, 2006, 06:50:35 PM EST Expand All History
Post #245,692 by Nightowl 2/21/06 10:04:10 PM Reply	Re: Affront? No. Perplexing is almost it - sad is probably closest. However, she DOES make quite an effort to become less ignorant, and for that I give her an immense amount of credit. Thanks, Steve. An example is why I've stayed away from the writing/math thread in here. I excelled at writing but I had to really work at it, having not been taught grammar properly in High School. However, no matter how hard I worked at math, I failed. I failed Algebra three times in High School and College combined. I struggled with math, I couldn't even handle basic math, no matter how hard I tried. But I persevered, and I went back to college a couple years after I met John, and I passed basic algebra, barely, with a lot of help from him, and by the skin of my teeth. But I had to have what you would probably call a handicap. I had to have more time for tests, and more time to get things solved. I had to work every problem 7 times and take the answer I got most often. And I got a B in the class, amazingly enough. I'll never be good at math, but I'll never stop trying to be better. And that goes for everything else in my life. :) Brenda "When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." By Geoffrey F. Abert
Post #245,676 by inthane-chan 2/21/06 7:01:33 PM Reply	Never said that. I just don't take it to the levels that Rand does. When somebody asks you to trade your freedoms for security, it isn't your* security they're talking about.*
Post #245,686 by Nightowl 2/21/06 9:06:48 PM Reply	Interesting Analogy But very true. My mere existence seems to rub certain people the wrong way. However, there's nothing I can do about it, as all attempts to fix, repair or adjust things seem to fail in the face of the attempt. And all my attempts to please people by attempting to cease to exist in the past, well that wasn't the answer either. So eventually I learned that if everyone else has to put up with my existence, then I might as well too. ;) Brenda "When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." By Geoffrey F. Abert
Post #245,706 by CRConrad 2/22/06 2:51:55 AM Reply	Muahahaha! Hoots our featherhead: So eventually I learned that if everyone else has to put up with my existence, then I might as well too. ;) Heheh, cool attitude -- keep it up! :-) I mean, I'm sure Rand didn't mean to endorse the alternative, any more than I did. (Oh, and somebody LRPD that line of hers. Thank you.) [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link\|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105\|Mr. Hat]
Post #245,752 by Nightowl 2/22/06 1:21:37 PM Reply	Thanks Conrad. :) I'm trying to have a new and improved attitude this year, and so far, so good! Brenda "When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." By Geoffrey F. Abert
Post #245,709 by Ashton 2/22/06 3:08:12 AM Reply	I Hoot LRPD (new thread) Created as new thread #245708 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=245708\|I Hoot LRPD]
Post #245,667 by ben_tilly 2/21/06 6:39:20 PM Reply	What you're missing is that... compared to the average American, Brenda probably is a history buff. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #245,669 by Steve Lowe 2/21/06 6:41:01 PM Reply	ouch -- Steve [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu]
Post #245,673 by Ashton 2/21/06 6:45:56 PM Reply	O, that unkindest cut of all.. a smidgeon of unadulterated unspun Truth. We ARE Unworthy ..and It Shows
Post #245,732 by jb4 2/22/06 10:35:08 AM Reply	<groan /> +5, Insightful :-( jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Post #245,682 by Nightowl 2/21/06 8:45:36 PM Reply	Re: I'm having a tough time reconciling... "history buffs, of which I'm one" with The Industrial Revolution (not sure on this, was it the era of Titanic?) —truly I am. From the evidence you provide, you are a "history buff" only in the sense that I am an astronaut. I should have clarified. What I meant by being a "History Buff" is that I was into military history. That is what I'm more versed about. I could care less in high school about the roaring twenties, or the 30's or anything non-military back then. And that's the honest truth. I'm sure I learned it, I remember having to read the "Great Gatsby" but I don't remember much. Rcareaga wrote: I am reinforced, though, in an existing conviction, dear Brenda, that you must have been raised in a wicker basket. No, just raised where I focused down a specific tunnel of history, not the whole picture. Just wasn't interested, for some reason. That's another reason I know so little about politics, other than the parts that stood out during wartimes. Brenda "When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." By Geoffrey F. Abert
Post #245,691 by Nightowl 2/21/06 9:55:57 PM Reply	Industrial Age Confusion The Industrial Revolution (not sure on this, was it the era of Titanic?) The reason I thought this at first, was because of this song: FROM TITANIC THE MUSICAL: What a Remarkable Age This Is! My dear Mr. Latimer! Prepare to meet our clientele Our meeting is imminent Our having just run the dinner bell It won't be a novelty We mostly have seen them all before... Prepare for the usual You should be aware of what's in store... We've served them on the Baltic And the Oceanic Olympic and Majestic And today's the same There's nothing changed... Mr. Astor takes his toast dry Mrs. Straus likes the grouse With the sauce on the side And the Wideners love kidney pie Bring it hot, if it's not They'll be fit to be tied They're accustomed to the best Of all that money buys The world of free enterprise Has given this privilege to the rich... When they're idle They're entitled to the luxury Which we provide That's forever the source of our pride... Which is why we're always there With our special form of care For every hungry millionaire By now they've all arrived... We're sailing aboard the greatest ship That ever sailed the seas The hull and the keel imperviously Stronger by degrees! Magnificent crystal chandeliers Parquet in all the floors The ceiling is Jacobean A decor the world adores Oh what a ship! Remarkable keel Oh what a keel! Remarkable steel! Oh what a ship! If it could be put in a phrase...it's What a remarkable age this is! A fellow's invented see-through film He calls it cellophane Another has built a parachute For jumping out of an airplane! Remarkable things flow endlessly From out the human brain! Indeed And what a remarkable age this is! Keep the Captain's table pristine Where we seat the elite whom we happily serve Here they dine on fine French cuisine It's the Cr\ufffdme De La Cr\ufffdme\ufffds Exclusive preserve! It's the pleasure of the leisure class's greatest wits To be where the Captain sits When taking their dinner on the sea. Giving difference to their preferences Is our chief art! We play a part In a perfectly working machine You should ever be aware This is a privilege great and rare A special burden that we bear In our respective lives! Remarkable! U.S. Steel Is splitting share at five to four! Monopoly makes the industry Far better than before! Attending the coronation of King George the Fifth was grand. And afterwards off to Monaco To frolic in the sand. Remarkable talk Oh what a talk! Remarkable times Oh what a time! Remarkable world Oh what a world! So much to surprise and amaze... And... What a remarkable time What a remarkable world What a remarkable age... The hull and the keel impervious Magnificent crystal chandeliers A fellow's invented see-through film And what a remarkable age This is! So my question is, if it wasn't the Industrial Age, what age was it, or were they just calling it an age when it wasn't really? I just thought perhaps the building of Titanic took place overseas while other things were happening here. But it was the song that confused me, really. Brenda "When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." By Geoffrey F. Abert
Post #245,695 by rcareaga 2/21/06 10:52:57 PM Reply	not every "age" a "revolution" —and as a rule one probably ought not draw broad conclusions about history (or science, or finance, or philately) from the lyrics of Broadway musicals. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #245,696 by Another Scott 2/21/06 11:02:02 PM Reply	Of course, some took "Birth of a Nation" as history too. Woodrow Wilson, [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation\|for instance]. Cheers, Scott.
Post #245,703 by ben_tilly 2/22/06 2:02:27 AM Reply	That is like... reading about the Wild West and concluding that the American Revolution happened in the 1870s or so. After all there are all of these references to America about then. What you're missing is that a revolution marks a boundary. America was around in the 1870s but the boundary of its existence was a century earlier. (It is traditional to say that America began with the signing of the Declaration of Independence in July 4, 1776. That's wrong, but let's not get sidetracked.) The same applies here. Yes, lots of industrial stuff happened at the same time as the Titanic. That is because the Titanic happened during the Industrial Age. But we're still in the Industrial Age. (ie the era where our economy centers around industry and manufacturing.) The Industrial Revolution happened at the boundary of that Age. Of course that transition happened in different places at different times. But it is traditionally held to have happened in England around 1760-1830, and elsewhere in Europe and America 30-100 years later. (It is still happening in some parts of the world.) So you're off by about a century, give or take some decades. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #245,751 by Nightowl 2/22/06 1:20:52 PM Reply	Re: That is like... ... What you're missing is that a revolution marks a boundary. America was around in the 1870s but the boundary of its existence was a century earlier. ... Wow, I didn't realize that, really. I thought a revolution always marked a bloody uprising, or social uprising more or less. And I thought that the issue about Titanic, all the hoopla that followed, might have been such a social uprising. That explains a lot though, thanks! The same applies here. Yes, lots of industrial stuff happened at the same time as the Titanic. That is because the Titanic happened during the Industrial Age. But we're still in the Industrial Age. (ie the era where our economy centers around industry and manufacturing.) The Industrial Revolution happened at the boundary of that Age. Of course that transition happened in different places at different times. But it is traditionally held to have happened in England around 1760-1830, and elsewhere in Europe and America 30-100 years later. (It is still happening in some parts of the world.) And that explains a lot too. I didn't realize it meant a boundary, which is why I thought the Titanic was in the Industrial Age, and as you've said, it was, it just wasn't the boundary. So you're off by about a century, give or take some decades. Not bad, thanks for the explanation :) Brenda "When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." By Geoffrey F. Abert

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