Except it's basic tenet . . .

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Post #237,634

by Andrew Grygus

12/11/05 2:08:28 PM

Except it's basic tenet . . .

. . that something as complex and organized as an ultra-tech alien capable of creating us could come about without a creator. How many levels do you want to push this back to delay uncovering the final absurdity?

My own opinion is just the opposite of ID, that life on Earth is far too complex and intertwined to have been designed - it could only have evolved.

[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]

Post #237,655

by warmachine

12/11/05 5:26:30 PM

That's an extrapolation of ID itself, not a basic tenet.

Although the ID advocates believe the designer is their god, ID does not describe he/she/it/them beyond being intelligent. ID is supernatural by implication, not definition.

And I agree, the richness and interdependency of life on Earth makes it implausible that it was designed.

Matthew Greet

Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.

If you think being anti-OOP is controversial.... - (tablizer) - (113) - Dec. 3, 2005, 11:19:25 PM EST

well that pretty much sinks ID :-) - (boxley) - (100) - Dec. 3, 2005, 11:34:40 PM EST

No, it is not a "soft" science - (ben_tilly) - (74) - Dec. 4, 2005, 05:05:19 AM EST

it is a philosophy, noted soft science much like psychology - (boxley) - (73) - Dec. 4, 2005, 10:06:58 AM EST

how about theology. -NT - (bepatient) - (1) - Dec. 4, 2005, 10:27:23 AM EST

subscience of philosophy -NT - (boxley) - Dec. 4, 2005, 10:28:26 AM EST

No, it isn't. - (pwhysall) - (20) - Dec. 4, 2005, 10:40:23 AM EST

Is sociology a science? -NT - (bepatient) - (2) - Dec. 4, 2005, 10:56:23 AM EST

In places, yes. - (pwhysall) - (1) - Dec. 4, 2005, 11:01:31 AM EST

In part it is the same methodology - (bepatient) - Dec. 4, 2005, 01:31:50 PM EST

point out differences between the examples - (boxley) - (16) - Dec. 4, 2005, 01:33:57 PM EST

ID starts with a creator. - (pwhysall) - (15) - Dec. 4, 2005, 01:58:25 PM EST

Not really - (bepatient) - (14) - Dec. 4, 2005, 07:44:12 PM EST

And how is that not creationism? - (pwhysall) - (13) - Dec. 5, 2005, 01:26:12 AM EST

No. Well, sorta. - (drewk) - (4) - Dec. 5, 2005, 09:22:03 AM EST

How is a designer not a creator? -NT - (pwhysall) - (2) - Dec. 7, 2005, 03:33:23 PM EST

If the universe designed itself in a fit of recursion -NT - (ChrisR) - Dec. 7, 2005, 03:52:40 PM EST

That's what ID people say, and why I didn't say it - (drewk) - Dec. 7, 2005, 07:13:54 PM EST

Re: No. Well, sorta. - (danreck) - Dec. 8, 2005, 05:11:29 PM EST

Minor difference - (bepatient) - (7) - Dec. 5, 2005, 03:52:31 PM EST

Same difference - (Silverlock) - (6) - Dec. 5, 2005, 04:44:56 PM EST

No again - (bepatient) - (5) - Dec. 5, 2005, 09:02:50 PM EST

No again - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Dec. 5, 2005, 10:08:02 PM EST

Sturgeon? -NT - (jake123) - Dec. 5, 2005, 11:13:40 PM EST

(Could be fun - with chromosomes.) -NT - (Ashton) - Dec. 5, 2005, 11:36:47 PM EST

If there is significance to the variable names, then - (jbrabeck) - (1) - Dec. 7, 2005, 03:57:54 PM EST

It's fun seeing people guess but... - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 7, 2005, 04:19:28 PM EST

I feel that the other examples are not sciences either - (ben_tilly) - (48) - Dec. 4, 2005, 09:39:09 PM EST

Agreed, social science might be a better descriptive - (boxley) - (47) - Dec. 5, 2005, 01:22:41 PM EST

You are right that those are missing... - (ben_tilly) - (46) - Dec. 5, 2005, 10:03:44 PM EST

Not interested enough to read the literature :-) - (boxley) - (45) - Dec. 6, 2005, 09:38:58 AM EST

Thats the issue - (bepatient) - (44) - Dec. 6, 2005, 11:34:33 AM EST

Can ID be experimentally disproven? - (imric) - (43) - Dec. 6, 2005, 12:02:26 PM EST

disagree - (boxley) - (31) - Dec. 6, 2005, 12:05:20 PM EST

Don't think so. - (imric) - (30) - Dec. 6, 2005, 12:15:29 PM EST

if you can predict results from the patterns then - (boxley) - (29) - Dec. 6, 2005, 12:48:17 PM EST

Nope. That's just genetics. ID is not genetics. - (imric) - (28) - Dec. 6, 2005, 12:57:23 PM EST

Q for ID-ers: How I is the D of, say, flightless birds? -NT - (Meerkat) - (27) - Dec. 6, 2005, 03:54:07 PM EST

I always use hemroids. - (Andrew Grygus) - Dec. 6, 2005, 04:13:35 PM EST

gotta have something easy to catch and consume - (boxley) - Dec. 6, 2005, 05:51:33 PM EST

Intelligent Design is a dead give away... - (ChrisR) - (2) - Dec. 6, 2005, 08:46:36 PM EST

Don't forget the other moral of the example you are quoting - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Dec. 6, 2005, 10:23:29 PM EST

Or even - - (Ashton) - Dec. 7, 2005, 07:44:29 PM EST

HD - Halfwit Design - (tablizer) - (21) - Dec. 10, 2005, 11:07:56 PM EST

ID is supernatural by definition - (pwhysall) - (20) - Dec. 11, 2005, 02:08:17 AM EST

That's just a fortunate side effect. -NT - (drewk) - (6) - Dec. 11, 2005, 02:10:43 AM EST

Not it's not. - (jake123) - (5) - Dec. 11, 2005, 08:11:12 AM EST

I see I need to expand my Ministry. - (pwhysall) - (4) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:39:16 AM EST

I beleive he did, parts stamped made in mexico -NT - (boxley) - (2) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:40:35 AM EST

That would be where every third guy is named Jesus? - (hnick) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:44:34 AM EST

Philistine. -NT - (pwhysall) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:59:30 AM EST

Damn! You mean Janis Joplin was RIGHT?!? -NT - (jb4) - Dec. 12, 2005, 01:37:23 PM EST

Creator need not be supernatural. May be ultra-tech aliens. -NT - (warmachine) - (11) - Dec. 11, 2005, 09:48:38 AM EST

And they were 'designed' to produce us, of course... -NT - (imric) - (10) - Dec. 11, 2005, 09:51:18 AM EST

ID makes no assertian of the designer, designed or not. - (warmachine) - (9) - Dec. 11, 2005, 01:56:48 PM EST

Except it's basic tenet . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1) - Dec. 11, 2005, 02:08:28 PM EST

That's an extrapolation of ID itself, not a basic tenet. - (warmachine) - Dec. 11, 2005, 05:26:30 PM EST

Here's you task for today, grasshopper: - (jb4) - (6) - Dec. 12, 2005, 01:41:33 PM EST

You forgot: bring a bodyguard - - (Ashton) - (5) - Dec. 12, 2005, 06:18:23 PM EST

What does the Prince of Peace have to do with ID? - (jb4) - (4) - Dec. 12, 2005, 06:27:24 PM EST

Nothing at all - we're talking GOD here . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (3) - Dec. 12, 2005, 06:32:10 PM EST

Heard a lengthy discussion re Yahweh - - (Ashton) - (2) - Dec. 12, 2005, 08:17:17 PM EST

look it doesnt apply to you gentiles, its a realestate - (boxley) - (1) - Dec. 12, 2005, 08:52:42 PM EST

DPRLCI (new thread) - (Another Scott) - Dec. 12, 2005, 08:57:01 PM EST

Nothing wrong with a creator - (hnick) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:05:27 AM EST

Post of the Week (and it's only Tuesday...)! - (jb4) - Dec. 6, 2005, 02:27:07 PM EST

Falsifiable, Trueifiable - (tablizer) - (9) - Dec. 10, 2005, 11:03:20 PM EST

Patterns... Pattern institute? - (imric) - (8) - Dec. 11, 2005, 01:47:07 AM EST

fairies exist, saw one once - (boxley) - (7) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:23:01 AM EST

heh, knew where that was going -NT - (bepatient) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:23:59 AM EST

So the teacher asks the kid - (hnick) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:31:25 AM EST

They wear boots - ya gotta believe... -NT - (imric) - (3) - Dec. 11, 2005, 04:22:52 PM EST

I saw it I saw it with my own two eyes -NT - (jake123) - (1) - Dec. 11, 2005, 04:52:11 PM EST

Well all right now! -NT - (imric) - Dec. 11, 2005, 05:02:00 PM EST

And around here they ride Harleys. -NT - (Andrew Grygus) - Dec. 11, 2005, 04:56:43 PM EST

Me too...I watch Bravo.... -NT - (jb4) - Dec. 12, 2005, 01:43:15 PM EST

What's in a name? - (ChrisR) - Dec. 5, 2005, 10:03:50 AM EST

Google 'ontological proof of god' for some pithy links - (Ashton) - (4) - Dec. 4, 2005, 05:52:22 AM EST

see my answer to Ben, -NT - (boxley) - (3) - Dec. 4, 2005, 10:08:16 AM EST

Unsatisfying, just word/def'n pandering. - (Ashton) - (2) - Dec. 4, 2005, 07:12:30 PM EST

look, if some mook wants to look at dna - (boxley) - (1) - Dec. 4, 2005, 08:10:25 PM EST

Quite right-enough - (Ashton) - Dec. 4, 2005, 09:09:38 PM EST

Sep. of church/state laws don't govern philosophy - (tablizer) - (19) - Dec. 10, 2005, 10:56:12 PM EST

It's FRAUD if you call it science instead of philosophy. -NT - (imric) - (18) - Dec. 11, 2005, 01:48:21 AM EST

then psychology is fraud -NT - (boxley) - (17) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:37:53 AM EST

This is news? -NT - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 11, 2005, 12:43:21 PM EST

Soft science. - (imric) - Dec. 11, 2005, 04:59:52 PM EST

That would be "Psychology is FREUD" - (imqwerky) - (14) - Dec. 11, 2005, 09:30:36 PM EST

accuse me? - (boxley) - (12) - Dec. 11, 2005, 11:00:42 PM EST

No, he didn't - (Ashton) - Dec. 12, 2005, 06:33:13 AM EST

I'm still not getting the connection... - (pwhysall) - (9) - Dec. 12, 2005, 06:36:57 AM EST

Negative. - (imric) - (8) - Dec. 12, 2005, 07:07:51 AM EST

OK... - (pwhysall) - (7) - Dec. 12, 2005, 07:10:47 AM EST

OT branch - (imric) - (5) - Dec. 12, 2005, 07:13:28 AM EST

Damn Scientologists - (pwhysall) - (4) - Dec. 12, 2005, 07:17:11 AM EST

ROFL! -NT - (imric) - Dec. 12, 2005, 07:25:59 AM EST

Anyone catch "Last Laugh 2005" over the weekend? - (drewk) - (2) - Dec. 12, 2005, 10:01:12 AM EST

Yep. - (bepatient) - (1) - Dec. 12, 2005, 10:10:54 AM EST

Ronnie, walking around, would scare me too... - (hnick) - Dec. 12, 2005, 10:43:53 AM EST

ICLRPD (new thread) - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 12, 2005, 11:44:56 AM EST

Not accusing you. - (imqwerky) - Dec. 12, 2005, 05:43:18 PM EST

More like: Freud (pronounced: "fraud") - (jb4) - Dec. 12, 2005, 01:32:36 PM EST

Just saying "I think it's science"... - (pwhysall) - (2) - Dec. 4, 2005, 02:59:26 AM EST

ID ain't Physics. It's Meta-Physics. - (ChrisR) - (1) - Dec. 12, 2005, 06:31:15 PM EST

\ufffdPrecisam\ufffdnte! - and before you start in that field - (Ashton) - Dec. 12, 2005, 08:24:44 PM EST

intelligent design: the agenda - (rcareaga) - (5) - Dec. 5, 2005, 09:22:50 PM EST

And around and around.. - (Ashton) - Dec. 5, 2005, 10:02:40 PM EST

300 years after the Enlightenment and we still get this. -NT - (warmachine) - Dec. 6, 2005, 02:43:04 AM EST

This crap pisses me off - (Silverlock) - (2) - Dec. 6, 2005, 02:03:15 PM EST

religion is an opiate for the sociopaths? probably -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Dec. 6, 2005, 03:31:32 PM EST

Not just sociopaths, everybody ;0) - (mmoffitt) - Dec. 7, 2005, 08:47:01 AM EST

I'm not persuaded. 47 kB .img - (Another Scott) - Dec. 6, 2005, 03:45:09 PM EST

God-Man\ufffd explains finally.. how it works - (Ashton) - (1) - Dec. 8, 2005, 03:39:26 AM EST

I like the non sequitor version better - (boxley) - Dec. 8, 2005, 05:49:48 PM EST

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