"Freedom is slavery?"

[link|http://www.snappingturtle.net/flit/archives/2005_11_16.html#005628|But never let the facts get the way of your hatred.]

Excerpt:

On the anti- side, of course, you have accusations that WP is a "chemical" weapon or an "illegal" one. It's not.* WP was heavily used in the Second World War by the Allies, including Canada, against both Germany and Japan**, for exactly the same reasons and missions it's being used now. But yes, a WP artillery shell is a bad thing to have land near you... not nearly as bad as a regular high-explosive artillery shell of the same size, but certainly the next worst thing.

The job of those opposed would be much harder, of course, if the pro- side had any more of a clue what they were talking about. The State Department's retracted statement, that WP was "fired into the air at night," is classic. It should go without saying that using a smoke shell to try to light up a dark sky would be a failure... I guess only the State Department could confuse phosphorus with magnesium, which is what real illuminating rounds are made of.

*I've seen a lot of people claiming that the 1980 Incendiary Weapons protocol of Geneva forbids the use of white phosphorus against civilians. It does not. It forbids the use of "incendiaries," and specifically excludes weapons like WP where the incendiary effect is a secondary effect of smoke production (incendiary weapons by definition are those weapons designed to create fires... WP occasionally will start fires, but it's not very reliable in that role... generally it just creates a lot of smoke). Whether the U.S. has signed it or not is irrelevant.

I can see why they'd still be supporting Bush (but the margin surprises me). Why aren't Louisiana and Mississippi off the chart?

I'd like to think these polls mean something in times like this, but I really don't. I think polls are swayed by reporting of them. That is, if there's good news about the country and the polling numbers are good, then the polling numbers will continue to rise even if the good news has little or nothing to do with the president's policies. What could people point to that they liked when Bush's numbers were 90% approval? Just going to Afghanistan, AFAIK. I don't think 90% liked his tax cuts, etc.

In other words, we won't really start to know if Bush and the Republicans are in trouble with the electorate until September or October of next year - when people have a real choice on the ballot and when the candidates are talking in specifics about the issues.

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #233,898 by marlowe 11/13/05 1:09:41 PM Reply	"Freedom is slavery?" For me, freedom is freedom. I love cheeseburgers. ---------------------------------------------------------------- 4 out of 5 Iraqis choose democracy! If you don't like my posts, don't click on them. Never mind the AP. Here's the real Iraq reporting: [link\|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/\|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/] "The period of debate is closed. Arms, as the last resort, decide the contest." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense
Post #233,935 by tuberculosis 11/13/05 7:09:10 PM 8/21/07 5:52:34 AM Reply	No, to you freedom is tyranny and war crimes Or did you miss that little item with the US use of chemical agents (white phosphorous) in 2004. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Sorry man, your team isn't better. Mass murderers? Check the mirror. Secret prisons? Check. Torture, disappearing people in the night? Gotcha. We have met the enemy and they are most definitely US (of A). But you don't care as long as your SUV has gas to get through the drive-thru. Sucker. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush Edited by tuberculosis Nov. 14, 2005, 01:54:11 AM EST Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 05:52:34 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #233,941 by Simon_Jester 11/13/05 8:11:01 PM 11/13/05 8:18:13 PM Reply	Shouldn't that read : tyranny and war crimes are freedom.... I know...it should be a boolean operation, but he does equate those two with freedom. Mass murder Torture Death Squads Willy Pete hell, I had him arguing for genocide not too long ago. Edited by Simon_Jester Nov. 13, 2005, 08:18:13 PM EST Expand All History
Post #233,952 by boxley 11/13/05 9:26:34 PM Reply	what! they banned WP? since when? "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #236,083 by marlowe 11/26/05 1:12:39 PM Reply	67 flavors of bulls*t [link\|http://www.snappingturtle.net/flit/archives/2005_11_16.html#005628\|But never let the facts get the way of your hatred.] Excerpt: On the anti- side, of course, you have accusations that WP is a "chemical" weapon or an "illegal" one. It's not. WP was heavily used in the Second World War by the Allies, including Canada, against both Germany and Japan*, for exactly the same reasons and missions it's being used now. But yes, a WP artillery shell is a bad thing to have land near you... not nearly as bad as a regular high-explosive artillery shell of the same size, but certainly the next worst thing. The job of those opposed would be much harder, of course, if the pro- side had any more of a clue what they were talking about. The State Department's retracted statement, that WP was "fired into the air at night," is classic. It should go without saying that using a smoke shell to try to light up a dark sky would be a failure... I guess only the State Department could confuse phosphorus with magnesium, which is what real illuminating rounds are made of. I've seen a lot of people claiming that the 1980 Incendiary Weapons protocol of Geneva forbids the use of white phosphorus against civilians. It does not. It forbids the use of "incendiaries," and specifically excludes weapons like WP where the incendiary effect is a secondary effect of smoke production (incendiary weapons by definition are those weapons designed to create fires... WP occasionally will start fires, but it's not very reliable in that role... generally it just creates a lot of smoke). Whether the U.S. has signed it or not is irrelevant. ---------------------------------------------------------------- 4 out of 5 Iraqis choose democracy! If you don't like my posts, don't click on them. Never mind the AP. Here's the real Iraq reporting: [link\|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/\|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/] "The period of debate is closed. Arms, as the last resort, decide the contest." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense
Post #236,086 by boxley 11/26/05 2:02:34 PM Reply	well it burns nicely underwater, a valuable artillery tool Agreed WP with HE is part and parcel of an artillery mans tools. thanx, bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #236,159 by tuberculosis 11/27/05 12:13:54 AM 8/21/07 12:42:22 PM Reply	Ah - a connoisseur America is already dead. The current administration has been using the constitution for bog roll since Osama (remember him? he attacked us you know) gave them an excuse and stunned the press into inaction. It has taken them about 4 years to recover their cojones, but the free ride is over. What we are looking for in the next election is someone willing to resurrect america as envisioned by the framers of the constitution (a bunch o atheistic libruls don'tcha know). Most likely, they'll be colored blue. The [link\|http://www.surveyusa.com/50State2005/50StatePOTUS1105SortbyState.htm\|data] doesn't look good for your war criminals and neo-McCarthyites. [image\|http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/cheneythanksgiving.gif\|\|\|\|] I wonder what the whitehouse staff is thankful for this holiday season. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush Edited by tuberculosis Nov. 27, 2005, 12:21:33 AM EST Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:42:22 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #236,174 by Another Scott 11/27/05 9:53:14 AM Reply	Re: your link. Utah and Idaho are, um, strange. I can see why they'd still be supporting Bush (but the margin surprises me). Why aren't Louisiana and Mississippi off the chart? I'd like to think these polls mean something in times like this, but I really don't. I think polls are swayed by reporting of them. That is, if there's good news about the country and the polling numbers are good, then the polling numbers will continue to rise even if the good news has little or nothing to do with the president's policies. What could people point to that they liked when Bush's numbers were 90% approval? Just going to Afghanistan, AFAIK. I don't think 90% liked his tax cuts, etc. In other words, we won't really start to know if Bush and the Republicans are in trouble with the electorate until September or October of next year - when people have a real choice on the ballot and when the candidates are talking in specifics about the issues. Cheers, Scott.
Post #236,419 by GBert 11/29/05 11:03:54 AM Reply	Bush has always been worse running unopposed Bush is never at his best running unopposed. He's been losing to "undetermined democrat" for years. He only really comes into his own when he has someone to play against. As they say -- you don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to make sure no one sees you clobber your fishing buddy over the head from behind as you run. Have whatever values you have. That's what America is for. You don't need George Bush for that.
Post #236,426 by Another Scott 11/29/05 11:29:10 AM Reply	ICLRPD. (new thread) Created as new thread #236425 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=236425\|ICLRPD.]
Post #233,951 by boxley 11/13/05 9:25:37 PM Reply	from freedom to slavery read the book, then figure it out. thanx. bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]

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