Post #222,952
9/5/05 5:30:44 PM
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Oh just stop.
Your quoting articles that counter the "fact" that Bush is a slow-to-react man who doesn't care about poor black people.
How dare you.
You must have voted Republican in every election since Nixon!!
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #222,957
9/5/05 5:43:50 PM
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nope
Was only 7 in '74 :-)
While I do vote Republican, it's not all-or-nothing. [link|http://tomdelay.house.gov|DeLay] consistantly does not get my vote.
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #222,963
9/5/05 6:26:45 PM
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chuckle
Next you'll have Ashton "cha cha cha"ing your defense of all things "biz-econo-corporut"
(nah...I know he only saves that for me:-)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #222,968
9/5/05 6:31:41 PM
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:-)
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #222,982
9/5/05 8:15:59 PM
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thats just because you have a mooba
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #223,022
9/5/05 11:33:55 PM
8/21/07 6:28:24 AM
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Sorry man, Bush has shown astonishing poor judgement
Proceeding with photo-ops cutting birthday cakes and picking guitars the day after the hurricane doesn't show a whole lot of sense much less sensitivity.
He worked to project an air of business as usual nonchalance in a time of crisis. That lapse of judgement alone has many questioning his fitness for office.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
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Post #223,077
9/6/05 9:24:23 AM
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AND DON'T FORGET THE TFR'S!!!!!
NO RESCUE HELICOPTER COULD FLY DURING THE MORON'S PHOTO-OP VISITS. Why this hasn't been more emphasized is beyond me. Everything had to be on the ground for the expanded Presidential TFR that follows the coward everywhere he goes.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #223,087
9/6/05 10:00:14 AM
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"TFR"?
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #223,089
9/6/05 10:01:20 AM
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temporary flight restriction, only bozo is allowed to fly
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #223,090
9/6/05 10:01:23 AM
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Temporary Flight Restrictions (or some such). Piloty things
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Post #223,093
9/6/05 10:02:29 AM
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Thanks, not heard that one before. You too, Box.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #223,099
9/6/05 11:03:55 AM
9/6/05 1:36:46 PM
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So what **is** your point, BeeP?
That the rescue was handled properly? Effectively? In a timely fashion?
That Bush did indeed do all he could as soon as he could have done it?
That DHS and FEMA's leaders were well on top of the situation (and their information was coming from well-informed internal sources "on-the-ground", as opposed to getting their information from newspapers, as they themselves let slip more than once)?
That nobody died as a result of the speed of the response (or due to the TFRs)?
That the money requested every year since 2002 to reinforce and improve the dikes around NO should have been refused because it was better spent as a tax rebate?
That everything was handled perfectly, except of course, for the response of a Democratic mayor?
That all the criticism of the response, from both Repos and Dems, should just be muzzled because it is unpatriotic?
What exactly is your point, Bill? I'm having a hard time sensing anything other than, "Everybody just shut up, everythings just fine, dammit!" from your posts on the matter. Perhaps it just Virtual Monday denseness on my part; if so (or even if not) would you please clarify for us here in the Peanut Gallery?
[edit: typos, of course....]
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
Edited by jb4
Sept. 6, 2005, 01:36:46 PM EDT
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Post #223,119
9/6/05 12:44:27 PM
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Re: So what **is** your point, BeeP?
I think BeeP's point is that there is enough blame to go around here, no need to single out Bush. And in that regards I agree, as far as I can see there was a nearly universal faliure here.
City, State and Federal authorities all failed here. They didn't take the situation seriously enough, early enough. And then once the storm did hit they failed to adapt or respond effectivly. None of the agencies seem to have had a real plan for dealing with the disaster, nor could they deal with the situation on the ground afterwards. And this was true even for obvious and highly predictable problems, such as looting.
Heck, the federal groups couldn't even handle the publicity correctly. Several spokepeople made blatently false statements about the predictability of the disaster or insensitive comments about the people trapped in New Orleans being partially responsible for what happened to them because they didn't leave.
For his part, Bush failed to treat the situation as a real national disaster till several days afterwards. And once he did realize that he was looking bad, he interrupted the disaster relief to stage some publicity events.
Jay
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Post #223,143
9/6/05 2:05:55 PM
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You assume I have one :-)
Essentially, I see alot of crap being spouted about what could have and should have occurred with absolutely no regard to 1) rules of engagement and 2) facts.
But, I understand that, for the most part, the feeling is that GWB used his powers as the "hand of gawd" to move the storm into NO so that the poor black people would die, or that he is completely at fault when the appropriations committee doesn't fund absolutely everything according to his prescience of the future.
Somehow, I'm absolutely certain, someone will soon come up with an executive order that says Bush ordered the unused busses (the ones that were supposed to get the really poor out of the city in advance of cat3 and up hurricanes) to remain parked next to the Superdome.
Do I need a point? Does a point do any good? It doesn't matter where the mistakes occured. Its all George's fault.
How could anyone be so blind?
(is the sign >really< necessary?)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #223,149
9/6/05 2:20:07 PM
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Uhh. No.
Those busses were to move the poor to shelters WITHIN the city. That was the plan.
Sorry.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #223,155
9/6/05 2:33:39 PM
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Uhh. No.
Since when does evacuation of a city mean "move from one spot to another within that same city"? [link|http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf|southeast Louisiana evac plan supplement] page 13, paragraph 5. 5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating. Perhaps they should have used "must be used" instead of "may be used". Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #223,158
9/6/05 2:47:17 PM
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Funny - not what the mayor said on the news
I was horrified.
Here, though.
[link|http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050828/ap_on_re_us/hurricane_katrina|As many as 100,000 inner-city residents didn't have the means to leave, and an untold number of tourists were stranded by the closing of the airport. The city arranged buses to take people to 10 last-resort shelters, including the Superdome.]
On the evacuation:
[link|http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWL082705nagin.b7724856.html| The order extends to everyone in the city of New Orleans with the following exceptions: Essential military and law enforcement personnel from the city and state, regulated utilities employees, essential members of the media, hospital employees and their patients, medical personnel, Criminal Sheriff's personnel and inmates and hotels and their patrons.]
THo an evacuation was called for, you needed the means to leave, and the busses were to take people to shelters, NOT evacuate.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #223,164
9/6/05 3:09:39 PM
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That's where the mayor screwed up
He didn't follow the plan, which seems pretty clear about the buses being used to help those who "require assistance in evacuating", as opposed to those who "require assistance in moving about the city".
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #223,165
9/6/05 3:16:04 PM
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Just there?
THis whole thing was a clusterf... A clusterfu... A demonstration of what happens when central planning meets general mayhem.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #223,167
9/6/05 3:18:48 PM
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Thank you.
Thats what I've been saying all along.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #223,176
9/6/05 3:39:13 PM
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I'm POed at many.
The Prez, the Guv, the Mayor, the cops that walked off the job, the assholes shooting at rescue copters, the list goes on...
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #223,174
9/6/05 3:33:45 PM
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Wouldn't that be: Major Planning meets General Mayhem?
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
[image|http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg||||]
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Post #223,177
9/6/05 3:39:57 PM
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heheh. Yup.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #223,185
9/6/05 4:02:17 PM
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nope
but you were only talking about the buses in your reply to BP.
And yes, I agree it was a fustercluck :-) The thing that's been pissing me(and BP) off is that all we're seeing is how the feds failed New Orleans. Never mind the mayor who had to be told by others to evacuate his city and then not follow the evacuation plan. Never mind the governor who "needs 24 hours" to accept Bush's offers for help(watch the biasedly described video Nagin still outspoken at CNN for this interesting tidbit). No, it's all Bush's and the Fed's fault. Sure, they have their share of the blame, but to me it pales in comparision to the local/state.
For a comparison of successful local/state handling of a disaster, just look one state over. And even then, we're asking [link|http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/05/katrina/3339670|WERE WE PREPARED?] instead of blaming everybody else.
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #223,166
9/6/05 3:18:03 PM
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Amazing, ain't it.
A politician not telling the truth.
Public transportation, according to >the plan< was NOT to move people to the Superdome in Class 3 and up...they were supposed to get those people out of the city.
Of course noone is telling you this. It isn't what happened. It was in the plan...and the local responsibility in advance of the storm.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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