IIRC, depends on aircraft design

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Post #217,790 by tonytib 8/5/05 5:55:34 PM Reply	IIRC, depends on aircraft design normal design with FBW -- no problem flying manually. "relaxed stability design" with FBW (maybe F-16 was first, I'm not sure) -- flying is possible but very difficult with it off "inherently unstable design" (probably includes latest US fighters F-22, JSF) -- cannot fly without FBW. But the more unstable design can, IIRC, improve performance and allow dog fighting maneuvers that are simply impossible with conventional aircraft. I'm not sure what, if any, the benefits of relaxed/no stability are for airliners. I doubt any airliners are inherently unstable yet (let the USAF/USN test for a decade first, I'd hope). Tony Who used to know more about this stuff
Post #217,864 by CRConrad 8/6/05 6:09:45 PM Reply	Actually, it won't be the USAF/USN that are the first to... ...reach a decade of tests: The Swedish, Czech, Hungarian, and South African air forces will beat them to it, since they're either already using or about to take into use the world's first inherently unstable fighter plane in production -- the [link\|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_Gripen\|SAAB Gripen]. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #218,091 by drewk 8/8/05 9:32:53 AM Reply	Guess the F117 doesn't count? === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #218,122 by pwhysall 8/8/05 2:03:41 PM Reply	Which first flew in 1977. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #218,215 by CRConrad 8/8/05 5:59:41 PM Reply	Live and learn. I only knew it was butt-ugly. ;-)

Airplanes and dateless nights - (bionerd) - (73) - Aug. 3, 2005, 10:48:43 AM EDT

Sure it would - (drewk) - (4) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:08:47 AM EDT

Or short the stupid fly-by-wire crap. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:14:04 AM EDT

if airbus does the same testing as we do - (boxley) - (1) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:45:31 AM EDT

Oops, forgot the <sarcasm> - (mmoffitt) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:48:14 AM EDT

Yeah, but they dont think that is what happened here. - (bionerd) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:21:02 AM EDT

Nit. Airbus is not exclusively French. - (mmoffitt) - (67) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:13:52 AM EDT

I know - (bionerd) - (1) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:17:07 AM EDT

Forgot something. - (mmoffitt) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:34:37 AM EDT

This one was... it was Air France -NT - (jake123) - (64) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:17:53 AM EDT

Air France Concord - (bionerd) - (63) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:29:39 AM EDT

Please madame, it is Concorde! :) -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (62) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:37:22 AM EDT

Potato/Potatoe - (bionerd) - (61) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:51:17 AM EDT

"BA flew to NY in 2 hours 34 minutes and all I got ..." :-) -NT - (Another Scott) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:55:25 AM EDT

Feh. The Shuttle does it a lot faster. - (mmoffitt) - (48) - Aug. 3, 2005, 12:08:55 PM EDT

I certainly try to avoid landing in aircraft of any kind -NT - (tuberculosis) - (47) - Aug. 3, 2005, 03:37:30 PM EDT

No accounting for taste, I guess. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (46) - Aug. 3, 2005, 03:39:15 PM EDT

Look what happened to that "perfectly good airplane" -NT - (tuberculosis) - (45) - Aug. 3, 2005, 03:40:46 PM EDT

Who said it was "perfectly good"? It was FBW donchaknow. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (44) - Aug. 3, 2005, 03:43:54 PM EDT

Is that really so much less reliable than FBM? - (tuberculosis) - (43) - Aug. 3, 2005, 03:52:36 PM EDT

Um, it would have been nice to FBM on these. - (mmoffitt) - (42) - Aug. 3, 2005, 04:13:38 PM EDT

What the intent behind FBW? - (admin) - (41) - Aug. 3, 2005, 06:03:48 PM EDT

A few things - (tuberculosis) - (15) - Aug. 3, 2005, 07:18:27 PM EDT

Interesting. - (admin) - Aug. 3, 2005, 07:34:07 PM EDT

Problem is digital failure is ... well, digital - (drewk) - Aug. 3, 2005, 07:56:51 PM EDT

When it's accepted on automobiles, I'll be a believer. -NT - (a6l6e6x) - Aug. 3, 2005, 08:08:28 PM EDT

United 232 - (bionerd) - (11) - Aug. 3, 2005, 08:47:10 PM EDT

Probably not. - (inthane-chan) - (1) - Aug. 3, 2005, 09:04:37 PM EDT

Re: Probably not. - (pwhysall) - Aug. 4, 2005, 01:30:36 AM EDT

Re: Do regular people think about these things? - (a6l6e6x) - Aug. 3, 2005, 09:10:42 PM EDT

ICLRPD (new thread) - (ben_tilly) - Aug. 3, 2005, 09:11:32 PM EDT

Regular? - (Ashton) - (5) - Aug. 3, 2005, 11:41:26 PM EDT

I recently found out that my FIL worked out there. - (Another Scott) - (4) - Aug. 4, 2005, 08:19:13 AM EDT

{chortle} - (Ashton) - (3) - Aug. 4, 2005, 01:52:05 PM EDT

Thanks. Is this your old haunting ground? - (Another Scott) - (2) - Aug. 4, 2005, 02:03:52 PM EDT

{snerfl} - (Ashton) - (1) - Aug. 4, 2005, 02:57:52 PM EDT

ad some hair to this picture, slim down the jawline - (boxley) - Aug. 4, 2005, 03:23:32 PM EDT

not as much fun as picturing ground zero nuclear - (boxley) - Aug. 4, 2005, 07:39:24 AM EDT

Doesn't FBW mean - (imqwerky) - (4) - Aug. 3, 2005, 07:38:12 PM EDT

FBW == Fly By Wire. HTH! -NT - (jb4) - (3) - Aug. 4, 2005, 09:30:11 AM EDT

I know... :-D - (imqwerky) - (2) - Aug. 4, 2005, 10:46:35 AM EDT

Let's examine the entrails a little more. - (Another Scott) - (1) - Aug. 4, 2005, 10:51:58 AM EDT

I stand, er, sit corrected! :-P -NT - (imqwerky) - Aug. 4, 2005, 10:54:47 AM EDT

It's mostly a philosophical thing with me. </smirk> - (mmoffitt) - (19) - Aug. 4, 2005, 11:59:25 AM EDT

I think this argues for better FBW actually - (tuberculosis) - (18) - Aug. 4, 2005, 12:36:31 PM EDT

I agree. - (Another Scott) - Aug. 4, 2005, 01:02:37 PM EDT

Say what? - (mmoffitt) - (16) - Aug. 4, 2005, 02:48:30 PM EDT

What "trained pilot"? - (jb4) - (1) - Aug. 5, 2005, 10:16:25 AM EDT

Doh! </me slaps self on forehead> - (mmoffitt) - Aug. 5, 2005, 01:23:57 PM EDT

My guess - (tuberculosis) - (13) - Aug. 5, 2005, 02:12:57 PM EDT

in an f16 turn off the computer - (boxley) - (1) - Aug. 5, 2005, 02:14:20 PM EDT

You're so much more succinct that I am. - (tuberculosis) - Aug. 5, 2005, 02:16:55 PM EDT

Then why do Boeing FBW aircraft *all* have "off" switches? - (mmoffitt) - (10) - Aug. 5, 2005, 03:00:31 PM EDT

Probably the pilots demanded them. - (Andrew Grygus) - (4) - Aug. 5, 2005, 03:08:29 PM EDT

I always like this one. - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Aug. 5, 2005, 03:13:16 PM EDT

But at Mach 3, you'll get found REAL fast.... - (jb4) - (1) - Aug. 5, 2005, 04:11:17 PM EDT

Or 3 states away from where you're supposed to be. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - Aug. 5, 2005, 05:31:11 PM EDT

As goes chess ---> so goes 'piloting'___[???] (new thread) - (Ashton) - Aug. 5, 2005, 04:10:04 PM EDT

IIRC, depends on aircraft design - (tonytib) - (4) - Aug. 5, 2005, 05:55:34 PM EDT

Actually, it won't be the USAF/USN that are the first to... - (CRConrad) - (3) - Aug. 6, 2005, 06:09:45 PM EDT

Guess the F117 doesn't count? -NT - (drewk) - (2) - Aug. 8, 2005, 09:32:53 AM EDT

Which first flew in 1977. -NT - (pwhysall) - Aug. 8, 2005, 02:03:41 PM EDT

Live and learn. I only knew it was butt-ugly. ;-) -NT - (CRConrad) - Aug. 8, 2005, 05:59:41 PM EDT

Very possible to have lunch - (bepatient) - (10) - Aug. 3, 2005, 03:11:30 PM EDT

OT: Hey Beep. - (mmoffitt) - (6) - Aug. 3, 2005, 03:35:35 PM EDT

Re: OT: Hey Beep. - (bepatient) - (5) - Aug. 3, 2005, 04:45:51 PM EDT

K. Thanks. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (4) - Aug. 3, 2005, 04:53:39 PM EDT

Got any links? Will follow up. -NT - (bepatient) - (3) - Aug. 3, 2005, 06:16:02 PM EDT

Here's a couple. - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Aug. 4, 2005, 12:05:04 PM EDT

I know there's support for this - (bepatient) - (1) - Aug. 4, 2005, 03:01:19 PM EDT

I don't think its that far off. - (mmoffitt) - Aug. 4, 2005, 05:13:16 PM EDT

Do tell! - (rcareaga) - (2) - Aug. 3, 2005, 04:10:44 PM EDT

Dunno about him, but a girl I worked with did it this way. - (mmoffitt) - Aug. 3, 2005, 04:15:22 PM EDT

Biz trip - (bepatient) - Aug. 3, 2005, 04:29:48 PM EDT

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