Multiwindow /multidesktop movement

5/14/05 1:45:44 PM

I can't help, but...

\r\nNo mousing required, single hand only required.\r\n

\r\nTeeheehee!

Post #207,408

5/14/05 1:58:36 PM

So you agree this interface sucks

Post #207,412

5/14/05 3:07:46 PM

It seems to suck for you

In much the same way that KDE sucks donkey wang for me.

Post #207,414

5/14/05 4:04:00 PM

Agreed

The issues I listed are real. Not arbitrary "ooo it feels different".
I was hoping that the behaviour is tunable.
I guess not.

I'm going to stick with it as a replacement for my Windows box, assuming the Virtual PC works out (have not installed yet, waiting for it), but it seems that for a replacement for my Linux desktop, it simply won't work. Not that I consider it MUCH better than Windows, just that I'd expect not to get nailed with viruses and spyware in it, which is a plus.

Do you use multiple desktops, or are you satisfied with a single one?

Post #207,416

by SpiceWare

5/14/05 4:33:02 PM

Expose does it for me

I use multiple desktops on the Sun at work. On my iMac I just use Expose.

Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore

Post #207,417

5/14/05 4:51:35 PM

Multiple desktops...

...are not something I've ever been much of one for using. They add a layer of meta to my work that I just can't be arsed with. If I have to spend time and effort organising my desktop, then the thing ain't working right for me.

Expose, on the other hand, is the mutt's nuts.

Post #207,418

5/14/05 5:08:55 PM

How many programs do you keep open, on how large a screen?

Post #207,425

by folkert

5/14/05 9:04:06 PM

Sometimes

30 Xterms doing everything from Updates to compiling to watching logs, 2 Firefox sessions with multiple tabs per, Evolution, GIMP, Inkscape a music player, VMware with Windows inside that only the Office suite or Our Mailing suite running, maybe a firefox sessions as well.

That machine runs a backup DNS server and a failover DHCP, as well as stock CUPS CLient, Xserver, etc... Sometimes I even use the Console (running at 1024x768 with 50 lines) to do some more taxing work instead of X.

Mind you this machine is a 1.4GHz AMD 266FSB with 1.5GB of Memory (PC133 at that) and only when I am chugging along on an "apt-get dist-upgrade" on the machine, do I really feel it.

All this on a 17" Monitor, for now. Still trying to get a Dual G5. Which I'd get a Flatscreen 21" for. When I get that, I WILL dual boot it. Both MAC-OSX and Linux. I just WILL NOT do without Linux. Yes, Fink is nice. But I like my X Configs done the way I want'em.

I typically have 4 Desktops, One for General, one for Admin tasks, one for programs I have open but don't want in my way for now and one for E-Mail and Browsing. All 4 have the IM stuff in it.

--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ i_wethey
[image|http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg||||]

Post #207,442

5/14/05 11:55:42 PM

WTF?

Not you.
People who are silly enough to claim that a single desktop OS-X is enough.

Post #207,448

by boxley

5/15/05 1:09:48 AM

I only give a crap about one fire at a time

one xterm for one issue thst may need to be exported back, several others for other, lesse needs.
I have an issue I open a ssh session, export back to the desktop and swap between them. My mind is multitasking my desktops are single issue.
all brains dont work alike.,
thanx,
bill

All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

Post #207,447

5/15/05 1:08:49 AM

Quite a few, really.

Half a dozen or so running applications, with probably 20 or 30 windows. The big problem went away with the advent of tabbed browsing and IRC :-)

Screen is 1280x1024.

If I'm "developing"[0] one of my Awful Perl Programs, then this goes up by about 10 or so (perl module, perl program, source data, source data, output, perl documentation 1, google window, run window, debugger)

It's far, far faster for me to whack F9 and grab the window I want than it is for me to footle around with multiple desktops; all they do is provide me with a mechanism for losing windows.

Post #207,450

5/15/05 1:13:20 AM

30 goddamn windows

On a single screen?

You're insane.

Obviously the Mac is not for me.

Post #207,453

5/15/05 1:35:00 AM

No, it's not insane.

People drive cars with automatic transmissions of their own free will. That's insane.

And yet they seem to get from A to B pretty well.

See what I mean?

Post #207,455

5/15/05 1:53:42 AM

Post #207,571

5/16/05 3:42:17 AM

I agree your attitude sucks

please go back to using whatever it is that OS X isn't exactly like.

"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush

Post #207,652

by ben_tilly

5/16/05 3:02:16 PM

ICLRPD (new thread)

Created as new thread #207651 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=207651|ICLRPD]

I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

Post #207,419

by tjsinclair

5/14/05 7:19:33 PM

Re: Multiwindow /multidesktop movement

Does Expose' help at all?

I know you can spread out the active windows and then cursor between them without letting your hands leave the keyboard.

Even as big a Mac fan as I am, I'll admit it took me a while to get used to the OS X desktop.

Tom Sinclair

"This is a lovely party," said the Bursar to a chair, "I wish I was here."
-- The Bursar is a man under a *lot* of stress
(Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies)

Post #207,420

5/14/05 7:42:22 PM

Expose assumes many windows on a single screen

Which means no organizing, just lumping everthing stuff together.

Doesn't help multi-desktop, too many windows showing on the Apple-tab, etc. You can use the arrow arrow keys for the current desktop, but if you switch desktops arrow keys switch between ghost windos from the original desktop.

Expose is a poor hack to address an interface flaw, not a solution.

Even the name shows the problem.

"Expose."

"Show me everything out there because the interface is so bad I can't possibly orgranize it in a way that I know and control my environment"

Apple people have been suckered by the eye candy.

Everytime I find something interesting that makes me say: "Hey, neat stuff, I like it", I quickly become disillusioned.

Maybe it is simply I expect to much.

Post #207,424

by bepatient

5/14/05 9:00:52 PM

No, I think you expect it to be something its not

Sounds to me like you can't make it behave the exact same way you make a different window manager behave. I suspect that what you want may be possible but I also suspect that the way you want to use it doesn't exactly fall into the "typical mac user" bucket...hence it may take a bit of a search to get there...or maybe an adjustment in your behavior to better match the new environment.

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition}

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]

Post #207,443

5/14/05 11:58:33 PM

I'll never be a "typical" Mac user

Seems like Mac fanboys have no idea what a truly complex environment requires.

If I have to alter / simplify what I do to fit into a Mac environment, which them means limiting what I do, then I really have no use for it. At least not has a desktop Linux replacement. Which is kind of sad, since Mac claims the desktop crown.

I call bullshit.

Post #207,573

5/16/05 3:49:59 AM

Hmmmm

Fuck you.

I don't know why I bother helping you with your fucked up attitude but:

[link|http://www.yousoftware.com/desktops/?keyword=vt+desktops|http://www.yousoftwa...yword=vt+desktops]

Is a virtual desktop thingy that works with expose - which is to say triggering expose only shows the windows on the current desktop. Once triggered, you can select the window you want using arrow keys and hit return to activate the window.

cmd-` switches among windows in the current application. Using the above mentioned window manager, this command only switches among windows in the current desktop of the current application. Yes this works with xterms.

Signed, a fanboy.

Post #207,579

5/16/05 6:33:50 AM

Do you use it?

And the reason you help me is that you see throughout all this crap, I really am trying!

Post #207,596

5/16/05 10:26:51 AM

No, I don't use multiple desktops - I don't think that way

I could never get into the habit - even when working on X11 platforms that had them. However, i did install it on Tiger, it does work, and I played with it for about 15 minutes to see if it addressed your complaints. It works properly with expose. It seems like a pretty slick little program.

Also, I wondered if you'd figured out that cmd-` flipped through windows in an app layer on a desktop, while expose can be keyboard driven by invoking it, then arrow keying to hilight the window you want, then hitting return to activate it. No mousing required.

Post #207,604

5/16/05 10:59:22 AM

Thanks

Also, I wondered if you'd figured out that cmd-` flipped through windows in an app layer on a desktop,

No I hadn't.

Post #207,605

by admin

5/16/05 11:10:32 AM

Tried ctrl-F4 yet?

Supposedly that flips through open documents, regardless of application.

If that works like alt-tab, you can remap it.

I can't try it right now, because the Mini is at home.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #207,607

5/16/05 11:31:04 AM

Re: Tried ctrl-F4 yet?

Changes speaker volume.

The Apple - Backtick works through open app windows for a particular app.
It bounces to different desktops, though, so I can't open a series of windows for a particular project on a particular desktop and have it respect that boundary (as Todd steams while I bitch like the ingrate I am).

But it is certainly closer than it was yesterday to being a usable environment.

Post #207,612

by admin

5/16/05 11:46:48 AM

ctrl-F4, or Apple-F4?

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #207,615

5/16/05 12:26:30 PM

I didn't find it bouncing to different desktops

when using the commercial window manager to which I sent you the link. I had safari windows open on each of two desktops and it cmd-` didn't result in a switch.

Post #207,622

5/16/05 1:34:44 PM

I was using the other desktop manager.

I'll try the commercial one next.

Post #207,644

5/16/05 2:53:27 PM

Happens on X terms but not browser windows

Arrgg!!!

Post #207,667

5/16/05 3:29:26 PM

So use regular terms

you've found that exporting DISPLAY in the environment lets you use other terminal programs.

This shows you how to set up globally available environment variables:
[link|http://www.astro.washington.edu/owen/AquaEnvVar.html|http://www.astro.was...n/AquaEnvVar.html]

Post #207,779

by admin

5/17/05 6:43:04 AM

ctrl-F4 on mine cycles windows.

Stupidly, though. It's not most-recent-used, it's just "go through all of the windows, regardless of application". Bleah.

MRU is a good algorithm for this sort of thing. Not everyone stays in a single application all the time, which is what having two (three?!?) different keys to do the same thing assumes. I don't want to have to remember whether the MRU window is in another app or not in order to decide which key to use. That's asinine.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #207,606

5/16/05 11:21:11 AM

Why do you call "Apple-Key" Control?

Or does control work on your machine the way Apple works on mine?

Post #207,582

5/16/05 6:56:10 AM

I gotta go play with that.

Post #207,588

by SpiceWare

5/16/05 8:29:30 AM

That looks slick

15 day trial - will have to give it a try as soon as they [link|http://forums.yousoftware.com/viewtopic.php?t=355|fix Tiger issues].

Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore

Post #207,598

5/16/05 10:28:37 AM

Seems to work fine on Tiger

The note you pointed to said they'd have a working version on 4/29

Post #207,630

by SpiceWare

5/16/05 2:21:33 PM

actually it's "as soon as possible after 4/29"

They have [link|http://forums.yousoftware.com/viewtopic.php?t=401|another thread] dated 5-12 with "it's coming soon"

Darrell Spice, Jr.                      [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore

Post #207,635

5/16/05 2:42:19 PM

OK, current version works now though

except maybe for the separate desktop folders.

Post #207,421

by Another Scott

5/14/05 8:18:05 PM

Have you looked at Virtue and/or Quicksilver?

Virtue seems to be based on Desktop Manager.

[link|http://virtuedesktops.sourceforge.net/|Virtue].

I don't know if it works better with the MacOS default keys, but since it's still under development you might have more luck with it. (DM says "0.5.3 has been released. This is identical to previous releases except that the minimal amount of work done to make it Tiger-compatible has been done. Please do not ask for more features to be added as I am no longer developing the 0.5 branch." It's not clear what that means exactly.)

[link|http://docs.blacktree.com/doku.php?id=quicksilver:what_is_quicksilver|Quicksilver] might interest you too. It claims to be a framework for working with MacOS more efficiently. It has [link|http://quicksilver.blacktree.com/docs/?page=Mouse+Triggers+Plug-In|mouse triggers] that can work with Virtue if you do [link|http://virtuedesktops.sourceforge.net/help/html/solvingproblems/spQuicksilver.html|this].

Note I've not used either of these things. Please report back if you find them useful.

HTH a bit. Luck!

Cheers,
Scott.

Post #207,423

5/14/05 8:59:53 PM

Virtue doesn't do anything better

than Desktop manager, an adds some flakyness (keys seem to lock up for a bit).

I don't understand the mouse triggers at this point.

Thanks for trying.

Post #207,454

5/15/05 1:43:13 AM

I'm not seeing that (the flakiness)

Although your error description is a bit vague :-)

Post #207,452

5/15/05 1:33:43 AM

Re: Multiwindow /multidesktop movement

OK, let's see if we can't ease your pain. I think you're a desktop weirdo, and I'm sure the feeling is reciprocal, but here we go:\r\n

Switching between application windows : [link|http://www.petermaurer.de/nasi.php?thema=witch&sprache=english|http://www.petermaur...h&sprache=english]\r\n
Witch can be configured to do what it is that I think you want.\r\n
\r\nMultiple desktops: [link|http://virtuedesktops.sourceforge.net/|http://virtuedesktops.sourceforge.net/]\r\n
You might already have tried this, but I don't see mention of it. Jumps to the desktop a window is on. Witch's application switcher only shows the apps on the current desktop. You can send a window or application to a particular desktop, or make it appear on all of them. X11 windows appear under the X11 process.\r\n

\r\nWithout being too prescriptive (for which Ben has chastised me in the past) I think that these two applications should provide the functionality you require.\r\n

\r\nHope this helps.\r\n

Post #207,456

5/15/05 1:55:47 AM

Thanks

Getting late.
I'll try in the morning.

Post #207,470

by admin

5/15/05 8:42:07 AM

We *know* he's a desktop weirdo

As far as you're concerned, at least, because he works the same way I do, and we've already determined that you think I'm a weirdo.

I have 8 v-desks:

Jabber group sessions
Project
Project
Project
Project
Project
VMWare
Misc. (calendar, xmms, gaim/gabber main windows, etc.)

2-6 change depending on what I'm working on. I start on 2, then as I start another task (programming change, debug a production problem, whatever) I move to the next desktop and open up my typical 5-10 terminals, emacsen, Firefoxen, and so on. Any one particular project desktop may have up to 30 windows, and I manage them (quite effectively) with alt-tab.

I move between desktops with ctrl-F<1-8>, and can move windows to other desktops with ctrl-shift-F<1-8>. This works very nicely for me.

I haven't figured out how to be this productive on OS-X yet, but then again I haven't tried. I'm not a mouse person, so Expose has limited usefulness so far.

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Post #207,526

5/15/05 8:23:20 PM

Witch install directions don't mesh with 10.4

No PreferencePanes, just Preference.
When I put it there, it did not show up in the System Preference-Universal access like the readme said it should.
So I guess it's not ready for 10.4

Post #207,556

5/16/05 12:53:39 AM

Bummer. I like Witch.

My Tiger should be here today or tomorrow (curse you Amazon, etc) so I'll investigate then.

Post #207,563

by static

5/16/05 1:58:05 AM

This is an illuminating discussion.

Although I'm in no danger of acquiring an OS X desktop, it is still a possibility and Barry's Adventures In OS X With Comments From Peter is an interesting study in Advanced Desktop Setup.

(Like Admin, I use multiple virtual desktops to develop with - a habit developed only recently under WindowMaker. So using XP here, I had to locate something to add virtual desktops to Windows.)

Wade.

Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed

Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please

-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

Post #207,567