IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New You didn't really expect a different outcome, did you?
JP2 stacked the cardinals with very conservative people and Ratzinger apparently was his right-hand man. It's hard for me to see a different outcome under such circumstances.

Conservative institutions don't change unless they have to. And apparently the leadership of the Catholic Church feels it doesn't have to.

FWIW.

I wonder how the Republican right wing will try to spin this...

Cheers,
Scott.

New The best analogy I can come up with...
...is that it's like the Republican Party selecting Karl Rove as their next Presidential Candidate to succeed Dubya.
New If only higher-ups in the GOP were voting... ;-)
New Heard on the radio just now
(paraphrased from memory)

Insipid Young Twit: "I was real disappointed that they chose a 78 year-old European. I'd have preferred to see someone younger, and maybe from the Third World. I think the next pope needs to be younger if the Church is going to stay relevant to young people like me."

************

Odd...the strangest things bring my Inner Curmudgeon boiling to the surface. I felt like snarling "Listen, punk. You're going to be our age one day, or you're going to die first. Either way, relevance to your tender years ceases to be an issue." And I'm not even Catholic...

cordially,
Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
New He does have a point, if poorly expressed.
The Catholic Church needs young men to go to the seminary to become priests. If it doesn't appeal to some fraction of the younger male population, it's going to shrivel up from below.

(Dreaded Car Analogy follows:)

GM was having problems with Cadillac's sales falling through the floor. Their average buyer age was in the high 60s (or so). All of their customers were dying off. They had to do something or they weren't going to be around much longer.

The turn-around came when they started appealing to younger people...

Cheers,
Scott.
New Another viewpoint I oft hear...
...is that the shortage of priests does have the benefit of forcing the issue of declericizing the church.
New At 78 years old, he and his views..
arent going to be around very long. 5-10 years, probably.

New True, but look at his colleagues.
[link|http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/religion/jan-june05/cardinals_4-18.html|NewsHour] from 4/18:

GWEN IFILL: Father Reese, in today's homily, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger -- and I want to use his exact words -- criticized what he called radical individualism versus vague religious mysticism in the Church. And he talked about relativism as basically an evil, versus fundamentalism, which he described as clear faith. Is that a signal of the kind of pope that they're searching for?

REV. THOMAS REESE: Well, clearly Cardinal Ratzinger is highly respected by the members of the College of Cardinals. And what he said today is consistent with what he's been saying for years: His criticism of relativism, his criticism of agnosticism, of consumerism. There's a lot of -isms that Cardinal Ratzinger is very critical of.

I think, though, that the cardinals are also looking for someone who can present a positive image and can use -- can explain Christianity in a positive way to the people of the 21st century. And this is extremely important for the Church. I think we have to be not just against things but also have a message, a positive message, that we can bring to the people.

GWEN IFILL: So based on what we heard him say, and even with that kind of internal debate that you're alluding to, is there anyway to be able to figure out who is -- who are the cardinals who might fit the kind of bill that he was talking about today?

REV. THOMAS REESE: Well, I think that most of the cardinals would agree with what Cardinal Ratzinger said. Most of the cardinals, I think, really reflect the views of John Paul II. You know, after all, he appointed all but two of the cardinals who will be electing his successor. So, I think we're going to see someone come out of the conclave very much like John Paul II. We're going to see a lot more continuity than we're going to see change.

For example, I think we will find the new pope will be very liberal on social justice issues, on issues of war and peace. Just like John Paul II, he's going to be very strong, speaking for the poor in the third world, forgiveness of Third World debt, strong support for the United Nations, critical of the war in Iraq, against capital punishment. These are all positions that are to the left of liberal Democrats in the United States today.

On the other hand, on Church issues, on internal Church issues, on issues of faith and doctrine, I think we will see someone who's more traditional. In other words, someone very much like John Paul II.


He was wrong about Ratzinger not being the choice, but his points about the conservative nature of the Cardinals (wrt doctrine) are well taken, I think.

I don't think Ratzinger's attitudes are going to soften in only 5-10 years unless there are major external changes that force it upon the him (or his successor) and the Vatican.

We'll see.

Cheers,
Scott.
New love that reporter's quote style
criticized what he called radical individualism versus vague religious mysticism in the Church.
his exact words? my ass. This guy is like rushbo quoting clinton.
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Gwen Ifill's a she. :-)
It might be a transcription error - quite often quotation marks don't get used these days. Knowing where she put the quotation marks is impossible without hearing the transcript.

[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A942-2005Apr19?language=printer|Washington Post]:

In his sermon Monday in St. Peter's, Ratzinger defended a conservative approach to faith.

"To have a clear faith according to the church's creed is today often labeled fundamentalism," he said, "while relativism, letting ourselves be carried away by any wind of doctrine, appears as the only appropriate attitude for the today's times. A dictatorship of relativism is established that recognizes nothing definite and leaves only one's own ego and one's own desires as the final measure."

The church has been shaken by "numerous ideological currents," Ratzinger said. "The boat has been unanchored by these waves, thrown from one extreme to the other: from Marxism to liberalism, up to libertinism; from collectivism to radical individualism; from atheism to a vague religious mysticism; from agnosticism to syncretism, and on and on.

"An adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelty," he concluded.


FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Besides which
the vague religious mysticism may refer to yon new age Wicca types.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
     New Pope! -NT - (pwhysall) - (43)
         Woo and Yay! - (Another Scott)
         Better not be Ratzinger -NT - (ChrisR) - (40)
             My condolences - (Nightowl) - (39)
                 Pope Benedict XVI -NT - (pwhysall)
                 So much for Vatican II - (ChrisR) - (37)
                     and the head of what they used to call - (rcareaga)
                     You didn't really expect a different outcome, did you? - (Another Scott) - (10)
                         The best analogy I can come up with... - (ChrisR) - (1)
                             If only higher-ups in the GOP were voting... ;-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                         Heard on the radio just now - (rcareaga) - (7)
                             He does have a point, if poorly expressed. - (Another Scott) - (6)
                                 Another viewpoint I oft hear... - (ChrisR)
                                 At 78 years old, he and his views.. - (bionerd) - (4)
                                     True, but look at his colleagues. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                         love that reporter's quote style - (boxley) - (2)
                                             Gwen Ifill's a she. :-) - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                 Besides which - (jake123)
                     Groan................ - (bionerd) - (24)
                         Well, become a Pagan then, it's easy . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (23)
                             No original sin... - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                 As many as you want to take responsibility for anyway. - (Andrew Grygus)
                             Pagan, huh? - (bionerd) - (20)
                                 What do you call... - (ChrisR)
                                 Re: Pagan, huh? - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                     Yes, but you knew that already, didnt you? -NT - (bionerd)
                                 Re: Pagan, huh? - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                     You and I must chat some time. -NT - (bionerd)
                                 Now I've got a song running through my head :-/ - (ben_tilly)
                                 They used to be called "Lutherans" ;) -NT - (FuManChu) - (1)
                                     But now they have their own politics :-P -NT - (ben_tilly)
                                 well you could join the motorcycle non bathing branch -NT - (boxley)
                                 What do you call them? Maybe a Christian? - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                     :) Was hoping some would notice that -NT - (FuManChu)
                                     Saved me pointing it out... -NT - (static)
                                 Episcopalian? -NT - (jb4) - (7)
                                     Re: Episcopalian? - (bionerd) - (6)
                                         Liberal Catholic, my rear end - (jake123) - (5)
                                             I understood they share a lot of the same beliefs - (bionerd) - (3)
                                                 you dont have to cut off your wifes head, divorce is allowed -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                     :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                 Let's see - (jake123)
                                             No. They are not. But I know why you think that. - (ben_tilly)
         Too delicious! - (rcareaga)

Cue the Twilight Zone Music, will ya?
95 ms