Re: Yeah, well, sorry; we can't all be illiterate, I guess..

Post #203,714 by admin 4/18/05 9:03:55 AM Reply	Re: Yeah, well, sorry; we can't all be illiterate, I guess.. Something that runs, not oozes-like-it's-stuck-in-molasses? If you're talking about VB vs. Java, then that wasn't true even 6 or 7 years ago (I had exhaustive in-house metrics to prove it, too). Sheesh. There are a lot of bad things that Java is, but slow isn't one of them any longer. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #203,717 by CRConrad 4/18/05 9:23:35 AM Reply	Most sub-giga-RAM boxes I've used J-apps on, it's still SLOW
Post #203,723 by admin 4/18/05 10:13:00 AM Reply	Just like there are bad UIs in some VB programs... Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #203,757 by tuberculosis 4/18/05 12:51:46 PM Reply	Slow at what? "There are a lot of bad things that Java is, but slow isn't one of them any longer." Mmmmm. Depends. Slow to run, not so much. Slow to start - verrrry. Fire up any Swing app on Mac OS X and you'll find that it takes ages to get just the splash screen up. Criminal that is and it is why I pronounce desktop Java an unqualified failure. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #203,767 by admin 4/18/05 1:31:15 PM Reply	Re: Slow at what? The desktop Java apps I use are PVCS (teh sukc) and rarely IntelliJ. Splash screen times are no longer than things like Open Office or Firefox. I tend to leave GUI applications running for long periods of time, so startup times don't bother me in the least. Somewhat related: NeoOffice/J runs quite nicely on our Mini at home. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #203,778 by Another Scott 4/18/05 2:18:45 PM Reply	OpenOffice Win32 is a turtle. :-( Writer 1.9.91 takes 9 seconds to open on this Athlon64 with 1 GB of RAM. I have no idea how the Formula editor can be so slow either. On the other hand, DeScribe 5 (Win32) loads in < 1 s. Word 97 (which, granted, has a bunch of DLLs already loaded) loads in < 1 s. OO is a turtle. Saying desktop Java is comparable isn't saying much. :-( Cheers, Scott.
Post #203,797 by admin 4/18/05 3:45:06 PM Reply	I'm not talking about Windows. And OpenOffice for Windows isn't Java. :-) <6s for Linux OpenOffice on a 1.4 Ghz Xeon. 2s for Gnumeric, 4s for Abiword. 11s for Mozilla 1.7. 3s for FireFox 1.0, but it's already loaded. It's a good bit longer if it isn't running already. 3s for Evolution. All of these are C/C++. Compare to: 5s for pvcsvmux, a GUI Java program. 10s for IDEA, a Java IDE. Not too bad for PVCS, especially since it's a crappily-written Java program to boot. IDEs in general are very slow to start as well; Visual Stupido 6 takes for-freakin'-ever. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #203,813 by tuberculosis 4/18/05 4:20:03 PM Reply	Your IDEA launches considerably faster than mine I'm seeing times closer to 50s. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #203,814 by pwhysall 4/18/05 4:22:25 PM Reply	He is TEH ADMIN, remember. Java fears him. You are clearly instilling insufficient fear into your equipment. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #203,816 by Another Scott 4/18/05 4:25:38 PM Reply	:-)
Post #203,842 by admin 4/18/05 6:11:15 PM Reply	Must be your encouraging mental field... Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #203,808 by mmoffitt 4/18/05 4:14:48 PM Reply	Not slow? You'll probably write this off as "bad code" but have you ever seen how long it takes to load the DB2 UDB 8.2 UI? We've got an older DB2 server (4 GIG RAM, dual 1.1 Ghz processors) and I cry everytime I have to launch that app. (I shouldn't though, I should start it, go to the bathroom for a dump, stop and get a Diet Coke out of the machine, walk back to the server room and then, if I'm lucky and hold my tongue right, the splash screen will come up). bcnu, Mikem Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer. God Bless America.
Post #203,811 by admin 4/18/05 4:18:09 PM Reply	Yeah, that's bad code. BEA Weblogic's admin console was the same way. 140M from a standing start, and buggy as hell. In contrast, JDeveloper can start in 5-6 seconds and it has a more-or-less complete Oracle tool in it. So yeah, keep slagging Java's speed if it makes you feel better. But don't expect me to join the jihad. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

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