Have you used gmail or google maps?

is what you mean.

My job at big river books is to roll this kind of dynamic stuff out soon. Right now our coverage is IE 6+ and Firefox 0.9+ and that's it. That's all I have resources to qualify. Given the bugginess of IE its been a lot of effort to get two browsers supported but the size of its user population makes it justifiable. I expect we will qualify Safari in the next couple months (it seems to "just work")and will expend effort to support that one too as it is the primary browser for a growing platform.

We do not expect to expend effort to make our JS work with Opera, Konqueror, iCab, or any other browser. We are checking user agent and simply vending non-js versions of stuff if a browser is not in our supported stack.

Word to the alternative browser makers and users. Make your stuff rigidly adhere to web standards if you want to remain viable - otherwise we will likely start putting links to supported browsers on pages you fetch with unsupported ones.

Its long past time for people to expect site developers to "support" anything but what is published at w3c.org. By the end of the year, I am expecting all non-legacy pages to pass validation at [link|http://validator.w3.org|http://validator.w3.org]. (Don't even try it on our homepage now - it is to cry to do so).

But talk of "supporting" buggy browsers is counter productive. The browsers should "support" us.

Post #201,223 by ben_tilly 3/30/05 10:39:52 AM Reply	Have you used gmail or google maps? When properly written, complex "ajax" applications work fine across modern browsers. They don't, of course, work on Netscape 4. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #201,230 by warmachine 3/30/05 10:58:59 AM Reply	Alas, Opera ain't fully supported It seems cross-browser 'Ajax' still has a few things to work out. [link\|http://gmail.google.com/gmail/help/about.html\|http://gmail.google....l/help/about.html] And it's Microsoft that's developing Ajax. You think they'll sweat blood to make it cross-browser and cross-platform? It would be ironic if they made it do what Java applets failed to do. Matthew Greet But we must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig, cow after cow, village after village, army after army. And they call me an assassin. What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin? They lie. They lie and we must be merciful to those who lie. - Colonol Kurtz, Apocalypse Now.
Post #201,246 by admin 3/30/05 11:46:09 AM Reply	Microsoft is developing Ajax? Buh? Ajax competes with Avalon... Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #201,259 by tuberculosis 3/30/05 12:15:40 PM Reply	You mean that Opera doesn't fully support standards is what you mean. My job at big river books is to roll this kind of dynamic stuff out soon. Right now our coverage is IE 6+ and Firefox 0.9+ and that's it. That's all I have resources to qualify. Given the bugginess of IE its been a lot of effort to get two browsers supported but the size of its user population makes it justifiable. I expect we will qualify Safari in the next couple months (it seems to "just work")and will expend effort to support that one too as it is the primary browser for a growing platform. We do not expect to expend effort to make our JS work with Opera, Konqueror, iCab, or any other browser. We are checking user agent and simply vending non-js versions of stuff if a browser is not in our supported stack. Word to the alternative browser makers and users. Make your stuff rigidly adhere to web standards if you want to remain viable - otherwise we will likely start putting links to supported browsers on pages you fetch with unsupported ones. Its long past time for people to expect site developers to "support" anything but what is published at w3c.org. By the end of the year, I am expecting all non-legacy pages to pass validation at [link\|http://validator.w3.org\|http://validator.w3.org]. (Don't even try it on our homepage now - it is to cry to do so). But talk of "supporting" buggy browsers is counter productive. The browsers should "support" us. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #201,410 by jb4 3/31/05 10:45:11 AM Reply	Question about JS and Firefox (new thread) Created as new thread #201409 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=201409\|Question about JS and Firefox] jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #201,319 by ben_tilly 3/30/05 4:53:14 PM Reply	As others have pointed out, that is Opera's fault The relevant standards to make Ajax work are several years old. What is new is that developers have decided that the installed base is big enough to actually try to take advantage of them. Microsoft actually doesn't like this, because the applications coming out are smooth enough that they can replace desktop applications, and there is no tie-in to Windows here. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #201,334 by tuberculosis 3/30/05 9:12:07 PM Reply	What's funny about that is that MS was one of the early adopters with their Outlook web client. They did a great job of reproducing the desktop experience. In some ways they exceeded the desktop app (not that this is any real trick). "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #201,343 by pwhysall 3/31/05 12:53:54 AM Reply	Re: What's funny about that In what way did they exceed the desktop app? I use OWA regularly and detest it because it's cack. I'd be interested to know if it's got hidden depths. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #201,242 by pwhysall 3/30/05 11:29:06 AM Reply	NONONONONO YOU MUST WRITE A PROGRAM THAT THE USER MUST INSTALL ON THEIR COMPUTER THIS IS THE FUTURE I KNOW IT TO BE TRUE BECAUSE BRYCE SAYS SO Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!

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