Look on any creationism site

Post #183,769 by deSitter 11/9/04 12:24:47 PM Reply	Look on any creationism site Here, I'll help you: [link\|http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=biologists+speak+on+evolution\|http://www.google.co...peak+on+evolution] Or here, a popularizer of biology: [link\|http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Stephen_Jay_Gould/\|http://www.quotation...tephen_Jay_Gould/] How about this, the thing people REALLY fear, something scientists seem unwilling to vehemently oppose on moral grounds alone: [link\|http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/November-December-2003/review_larson_novdec03.html\|http://www.legalaffa...son_novdec03.html] Here's a physicist with no clue about physics OR biology: [link\|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0192861980/qid=1100020722/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/102-2176562-1700167?v=glance&s=books&n=507846\|http://www.amazon.co...&s=books&n=507846] Hey, you could mosey down to the corner bookstore and look in the biology section. Here! [link\|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0521841143/qid=1100020864/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/102-2176562-1700167?v=glance&s=books\|http://www.amazon.co...?v=glance&s=books] [link\|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679642889/qid=1100020971/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-2176562-1700167\|http://www.amazon.co...2-2176562-1700167] [link\|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0520240669/qid=1100021057/sr=1-22/ref=sr_1_22/102-2176562-1700167?v=glance&s=books\|http://www.amazon.co...?v=glance&s=books] The list is endless. It's all self-indulgent BS. Why should biology escape the pernicious influence of narcissistic post-modernism? -drl
Post #183,770 by pwhysall 11/9/04 12:34:10 PM Reply	wavewave* I said EVIDENCE. "Some biologists wrote some books" is not EVIDENCE. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home]
Post #183,771 by deSitter 11/9/04 12:38:28 PM 11/9/04 12:44:38 PM Reply	What do you want, direct quotes? I'm at work, not the library. The preening narcissism of society oozes out of every festering aspect of this modern world. Again - why should biology escape the trend? "Be all that you can be - and more!" I realize of course that what you want is nothing. As a fully qualified lover of this BS world, you're just being a pill for the hell of it. You couldn't care less if I supplied you with mountains of "evidence" - because what you don't want, what you and all your watchfully eyed brothers and sisters don't want, is a judgment. My judgment is that biologists have failed to point out the obvious - natural selection is a theory, with testable consequences, while "evolution" as such doesn't exist - there is no way of knowing at this time how organizations of amino acids leading to proteins emerged from some hypothetical chemical brew posited by a comet, or space aliens, or whatever, so to talk of origins is nothing but speculation. It's - gasp! - religion with another God, the one looking back from the mirror. -drl Edited by deSitter Nov. 9, 2004, 12:44:38 PM EST Expand All History
Post #183,775 by pwhysall 11/9/04 12:54:20 PM Reply	You made the unsupportable assertion. You sort it out. All this handwaving and personal attacking of me doesn't alter the fact that on this particular point, all you have is sweet fuck all. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home]
Post #183,776 by ben_tilly 11/9/04 12:56:54 PM Reply	Ah right Anything that Ross doesn't understand doesn't matter. And anyone who cares about such obscurities deserves his contempt. News flash: there is a lot more to biology than a simple capsule statement of what evolution is, and what different aspects are captured in Darwin's theory of Evolution. Perhaps if you had the perspective to understand why it is OK that most of the world cares so little about your corner of physics, you'd understand why your lack of caring about biology does not mean that biologists should not pursue the subject and care about it. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #183,782 by deSitter 11/9/04 1:27:39 PM Reply	Re: Ah right Particular results in biology, and the methods of biologists, are irrelevant to the simple distinction between and acutal theory and a model. Both sides of the "evolution vs. creationism" story are wrong, in the same way - they confuse a description for a predictive framework. Thus religion has no predictive value, and neither does "evolution", while natural selection certainly does. Since this is so simple as to be trivial, the question becomes why is something so simple, so universally misunderstood. THAT is a failure of biologists in particular, and the entire culture of science in general. Yours of course is the dilettante's choice - to maintain the fake richness of theoretical ideas for the purpose of making a more satisfying reflection of yourself. Had you ever actually worked on a real scientific project, you might understand this. -drl
Post #183,788 by ben_tilly 11/9/04 2:47:51 PM Reply	As you know, math is not a science So the fact that I did real math doesn't matter. Nor do my publications. However I've also watched my wife go through working on real science. And my comments still stand. Oh right. Her publications are in biology. So that isn't real science in your world. In which case you can say anything you want and win because it is accepted by the highest authority that you know - yourself! In which case attempts at conversation are useless. So I'll cease to bother. Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

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