Re: Horsecr@p. Our allies are insignifigant

Post #177,676

10/4/04 2:15:05 PM

Thank you for making this point... That's what you and Kerry's ilk actually believe, isn't it? What about the symbolism of this token effort? Andbythefuckingway, unilateral means "alone" - Great Britain (a European nation and our strongest ally) has/had a dog in this fight too... And almost all of the nations of the former Eastern Bloc. You don't think this is significant? I can't help you... What can I say?

And going to the meta - Iraq... Invading wasn't the right thing to do? I was having a fun type watching Kerry stepping all over his dick trying to link Al Queda to Iraq... Not that Iraq WAS A TERRORIST NATION AND ONE THAT HARBORED AND PAID TERRORISTS and completely consistent with what Bush said he was going to do in his 2002 State of the Union speech... I suppose that Kerry and all the other senators were asleep when he said he would "unilaterally" and preemptively attack terrorists nations (he even identified three, Iraq being one of them). YET THEY STILL VOTED TO GIVE HIM AUTHORIZATION TO GO TO WAR. And they are surprised?

By the way, when Germany takes over France yet again, do you think it will be us or the former Eastern Bloc that will bail them out? Ever take geography?

:-)

So, the coalition is a joke? I'm not laughing...

Just a few thoughts,

Danno

Post #177,713

by danreck

10/4/04 3:31:47 PM

10/4/04 3:45:05 PM

For additional reading on the subject...

Try going to [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020129-11.html|http://www.whitehous.../20020129-11.html]
Was Kerry in the room?

I'll give you a sample:

While the most visible military action is in Afghanistan, America is acting elsewhere. We now have troops in the Philippines, helping to train that country's armed forces to go after terrorist cells that have executed an American, and still hold hostages. Our soldiers, working with the Bosnian government, seized terrorists who were plotting to bomb our embassy. Our Navy is patrolling the coast of Africa to block the shipment of weapons and the establishment of terrorist camps in Somalia.

My hope is that all nations will heed our call, and eliminate the terrorist parasites who threaten their countries and our own. Many nations are acting forcefully. Pakistan is now cracking down on terror, and I admire the strong leadership of President Musharraf. (Applause.)

But some governments will be timid in the face of terror. And make no mistake about it: If they do not act, America will. (Applause.)

Our second goal is to prevent regimes that sponsor terror from threatening America or our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction. Some of these regimes have been pretty quiet since September the 11th. But we know their true nature. North Korea is a regime arming with missiles and weapons of mass destruction, while starving its citizens.

Iran aggressively pursues these weapons and exports terror, while an unelected few repress the Iranian people's hope for freedom.

Iraq continues to flaunt its hostility toward America and to support terror. The Iraqi regime has plotted to develop anthrax, and nerve gas, and nuclear weapons for over a decade. This is a regime that has already used poison gas to murder thousands of its own citizens -- leaving the bodies of mothers huddled over their dead children. This is a regime that agreed to international inspections -- then kicked out the inspectors. This is a regime that has something to hide from the civilized world.

States like these, and their terrorist allies, constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. By seeking weapons of mass destruction, these regimes pose a grave and growing danger. They could provide these arms to terrorists, giving them the means to match their hatred. They could attack our allies or attempt to blackmail the United States. In any of these cases, the price of indifference would be catastrophic.

We will work closely with our coalition to deny terrorists and their state sponsors the materials, technology, and expertise to make and deliver weapons of mass destruction. We will develop and deploy effective missile defenses to protect America and our allies from sudden attack. (Applause.) And all nations should know: America will do what is necessary to ensure our nation's security.

We'll be deliberate, yet time is not on our side. I will not wait on events, while dangers gather. I will not stand by, as peril draws closer and closer. The United States of America will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons. (Applause.)

Our war on terror is well begun, but it is only begun. This campaign may not be finished on our watch -- yet it must be and it will be waged on our watch.

We can't stop short. If we stop now -- leaving terror camps intact and terror states unchecked -- our sense of security would be false and temporary. History has called America and our allies to action, and it is both our responsibility and our privilege to fight freedom's fight. (Applause.)

Kerry was in the room. He had to have known what he was voting for when he gave Bush the vote FOR the power to levy war...

Just a few thoughts,

Danno

Edited by danreck Oct. 4, 2004, 03:45:05 PM EDT

Expand All History

Post #177,717

by ChrisR

10/4/04 3:55:10 PM

Sounds like...

...Kerry voted to allow Bush to invade North Korea, Iran as well as Iraq? Bush seems to have exercised jurisprudence in only carrying out one of the three wars that Kerry rubber stamped.

Post #177,730

by danreck

10/4/04 4:30:11 PM

Re: Sounds like...

Who's saying they're not next? I mean one of them is right next door...

Just a few thoughts,

Danno

Post #177,763

by Ashton

10/4/04 6:30:02 PM

Getting all wet over the prospect of Winning Big, are we? (new thread)

Created as new thread #177762 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=177762|Getting all wet over the prospect of Winning Big, are we?]

The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves that make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them that we are missing.
--Gamel Abdel Nasser via Rick Moen

Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is right and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the work of men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have whooped them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant, in this field as in all others. His culture is based on "I am not too sure."

--H.L. Mencken via Rand

Post #177,723

by inthane-chan

10/4/04 4:09:20 PM

Okay, I gotta differ on the Phillipines.

As you can probably tell from the picture next to my name, I've got a few local insights into the islands that many others here won't.

First off, Abu Sayeff is as much an Islamic terrorist organization as any other bunch of bandits that happens to need to fence stuff on the open market. YEARS ago, there was an Islamic insurgency with the same name, but they got their asses handed to them, pretty much dissolved, and a couple of the 'more shady' members picked up the tools left behind and went on a kidnapping spree. The Prez of the Phillipines sees an opportunity to get some U.S. help sqashing this group, labels them 'terrorists', and brings in the Almighty Force of the United States to squash what amounts to around 50-60 criminals. It's kind of like the United States asking the League of Nations to help quash Capone, claiming he's an international terrorist.

So, we went in to the Phillipines, squashed them like a bug, and got out.

And then the Phillipines, no longer having any real interest in helping out in Iraq, backed out at the first opportunity - I.E., as soon as one of their citizens actually got in harms way.

(Also note: Most of Al-Quaeda is currently considered to be hiding in Pakistan, THREE FUCKING YEARS after 9/11. If that's an ally, I don't even WANT to know who our enemies are.)

Just a few thoughts,
Me.

All I want for my birthday is a new President!

Post #177,716

by imric

10/4/04 3:49:10 PM

ROFLMAO - Allies ARE insignifigant

Or are you saying that Bush WOULDN'T have gone to war without these allies?

That our 'strategy', our 'tactics' might be different 'if' we did?

Not according to his own rhetoric, anyway.

But, let's just see, shall we?

7 allies (21%, rounded) have greater than 1% contribution; rounded, they are:

UK, 5%
Australia, 1%
Italy, 2%
Japan, 1%
Netherlands, 1%
Poland, 1%
Ukraine 1%

The rest fall into rounding error - but more exact figures are here.

"United States",138000,0.851709900201818
"Britain",8530,0.052645546729866
"Albania",70,0.000432026760971937
"Australia",850,0.00524603924037352
"Azerbaijan",150,0.00092577163065415
"Bulgaria",455,0.00280817394631759
"Czech Rep.",92,0.000567806600134546
"Denmark",510,0.00314762354422411
"Dominican Rep.",300,0.0018515432613083
"El Salvador",360,0.00222185191356996
"Estonia",55,0.000339449597906522
"Georgia",150,0.00092577163065415
"Hungary",300,0.0018515432613083
"Italy",2700,0.0166638893517747
"Japan",1000,0.00617181087102767
"Kazakhstan",25,0.000154295271775692
"Latvia",120,0.00074061730452332
"Lithuania",105,0.000648040141457905
"Macedonia",28,0.000172810704388775
"Moldova",25,0.000154295271775692
"Mongolia",180,0.00111092595678498
"Netherlands",1263,0.00779499713010794
"New Zealand",60,0.00037030865226166
"Nicaragua",115,0.000709758250168182
"Norway",150,0.00092577163065415
"Poland",2400,0.0148123460904664
"Portugal",120,0.00074061730452332
"Romania",730,0.0045054219358502
"Singapore",200,0.00123436217420553
"Slovakia",105,0.000648040141457905
"South Korea",675,0.00416597233794368
"Thailand",460,0.00283903300067273
"Tonga",44,0.000271559678325217
"Ukraine",1700,0.010492078480747

Believe it or not, I am not 'putting down' these countries.

Hell, I applaud thier foreign policy gamble!

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #177,720

by danreck

10/4/04 3:58:40 PM

Re: ROFLMAO - Allies ARE insignifigant

Okay, we're done...

Just a few thoughts,

Danno

Post #177,719

by ChrisR

10/4/04 3:57:39 PM

As near as I can tell...

...the Eastern block countries don't give a shit what happens in Iraq. They are in it for the prospects.

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