No kudos to you for repeating

Post #175,187

9/20/04 1:04:54 PM

without evidence of any kind that this is the case.

Without any response (outside of repetition) to any of my posts.

Pound the table, m'lad! Pound the table!

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #175,201

by mmoffitt

9/20/04 2:54:43 PM

Huh?

Are you claiming that the "sacred books" of J-C-M do not contain passages like the one I already cited? What is your point? Is religion the only thing that causes people to commit atrocities? Of course not. But it is among the very, very few that promise ever-lasting-life, (or virgins, depending on the flavor) explicitly in the text of their manuals/Bibles in plain, translated, English. You don't think that's worthy of condemning? A belief system that literally encourages atrocities?

bcnu,
Mikem

"The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism."
-Ted Grant

Post #175,207

by imric

9/20/04 3:14:38 PM

Go ahead - change your point

after it became apparent that you were wrong.

Lessee now - you claimed that:

"it IS religion that is at the root of most (all?) evil."

and are unable to support that statement; unable to back up the idea that the flaw exists in humanity with or without religion.

'it is religion alone that causes that subset to hold that they are more "God-like"'

(underlining mine)

yet with all of your mocking and insults, you yourself are guilty of this (simply refusing to use godlike in reference to yourself does not absolve you of this attitude of 'superiority') type of thinking. Unless you are religious (and this I doubt), you yourself break your own line of reasoning by your behaviour. YOur philosophy is 'superior' to religion, therefor it is OK to deride religion and religious people, no?

Bah. It is impossible to reason with people like you, unless you are broken of your sophmoric philosophies.

*chuckle*

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #175,214

by Nightowl

9/20/04 3:30:53 PM

Yes!

yet with all of your mocking and insults, you yourself are guilty of this (simply refusing to use godlike in reference to yourself does not absolve you of this attitude of 'superiority') type of thinking. Unless you are religious (and this I doubt), you yourself break your own line of reasoning by your behaviour. YOur philosophy is 'superior' to religion, therefor it is OK to deride religion and religious people, no?

Bah. It is impossible to reason with people like you, unless you are broken of your sophmoric philosophies.

Very very well said.

Nightowl >8#

"It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends."
(Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).

Post #175,215

by imric

9/20/04 3:33:05 PM

*chuckle*

The second was a joke; a rephrasing of his own words.

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #175,222

by Nightowl

9/20/04 3:46:11 PM

True, but

it also points out that you can't reason with someone who refuses to look at things reasonably or refuses to have an open mind about something.

But yeah, I wondered if the second part was a joke. I liked the first part best.

Nightowl >8#

Post #175,218

by mmoffitt

9/20/04 3:39:17 PM

Hey, that's *graduate* philosophies ;-)

"it IS religion that is at the root of most (all?) evil."

and are unable to support that statement; unable to back up the idea that the flaw exists in humanity with or without religion.

I can support that argument. The (all?) is clearly a question. Practicing a religion "as it is written" is what lead to the Crusades, the prosecution of Gallileo, the horrors of the corrupt early Popes, the slaughter of the native peoples of North America, most - if not all - of the thousands of years of violence in the ME, The Spanish Inquisition, etc. ad plenty-o-nauseum.

'it is religion alone that causes that subset to hold that they are more "God-like"'

What else besides religion teaches any of its adherence that they know God and/or are the Chosen People? That only by believing as we do can you enter heaven? I don't know of anything other than religion that promises eternal life, just for a "belief". Do you?

Post #175,226

by imric

9/20/04 4:00:05 PM

Is it?

I can support that argument. The (all?) is clearly a question. Practicing a religion "as it is written" is what lead to the Crusades, the prosecution of Gallileo, the horrors of the corrupt early Popes, the slaughter of the native peoples of North America, most - if not all - of the thousands of years of violence in the ME, The Spanish Inquisition, etc. ad plenty-o-nauseum.

And I think it is unsupported - I believe that most of these horrors were done for secular reasons, and justified by religious argument. I believe that most historians wou;ld back me up, as well. Gallileo threatened the secular power of the Papacy, for instance - the corrupt popes were, well corrupt - and used the church as a vehicle for wealth and domination, most of the native peoples of North America died of disease, the rest had thier land and posessions stolen - saving thier souls was only an excuse, just some examples.

Look - NEVER in this thread have I even implied that the various religious texts weren't used as an excuse for abomination; I simply believe that people can twist ANYTHING in order to rationalize thier own behaviour. I amn not immune (or superior *grin*) to this, you are not, atheists are not, muslims are not, followers of the Tao are not.

I believe that both the desire to avoid personal responsibility and rationalization are both at the root of human evil.

Not religion - especially not a particular type of religion.

Not even general ideology.

The flaw is in all of us.

Imric's Tips for Living

Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.

Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.

Post #175,259

by Nightowl

9/20/04 4:34:41 PM

Re: Is it?

Look - NEVER in this thread have I even implied that the various religious texts weren't used as an excuse for abomination; I simply believe that people can twist ANYTHING in order to rationalize thier own behaviour. I amn not immune (or superior *grin*) to this, you are not, atheists are not, muslims are not, followers of the Tao are not.

I believe that both the desire to avoid personal responsibility and rationalization are both at the root of human evil.

Not religion - especially not a particular type of religion.

Not even general ideology.

The flaw is in all of us.

And I say loudly, AMEN! ;)
(interpretation, I agree completely)

Nightowl >8#

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