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Post #175,173 by Nightowl 9/20/04 12:33:59 PM Reply	Not even close ...Let me be clear: A plain-text reading of any of the so-called religious texts coming out of the ME at once causes the "believer" to have a grotesque sense of superiority and eagerness to expunge any "non-believers" from humanity. If you're saying that by reading the Bible I have a sense of superiority and eagerness to "expunge" all non-believers from humanity, you would be completely mistaken. Nightowl >8# "It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends." (Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
Post #175,179 by mmoffitt 9/20/04 12:42:10 PM Reply	<sigh> If you're saying that by reading the Bible I have a sense of superiority and eagerness to "expunge" all non-believers from humanity, you would be completely mistaken. "A plain text reading". The only Christians I know (and I count among them most of the Christians here) that are both self-proclaimed Christians and decent human beings are the Christians who don't take too seriously the medieval superstitious tripe that comprises most of the Christian Bible. Does that help? In short, if you "read the Bible" without rejecting that which is vulgar, indecent and inhumane, then .... bcnu, Mikem "The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism." -Ted Grant
Post #175,181 by Nightowl 9/20/04 12:46:07 PM Reply	Not sure Because I don't know what you mean by your last statement. I just know I don't feel the ways you described, no matter what I think about what I read. Nightowl >8# "It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends." (Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
Post #175,184 by mmoffitt 9/20/04 12:54:57 PM Reply	The nut. If you don't "interpret the Bible" when you read it and instead take what it says literally, then you become "superior" and want to beat, maim, enslave, kill, etc., all non-believers. This is not unique to Christian writings, that kind of text is present in all the so-called religious texts arising out of the ME. bcnu, Mikem "The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism." -Ted Grant
Post #175,186 by Nightowl 9/20/04 1:00:14 PM Reply	Ah ok The ME is the Mesopotamian Era, right? Well then it's clear to me that the Bible (or other texts) aren't what's evil, it's the way individuals interpret the words that can become evil. So I still stand on my point that religion isn't the root of all evil, but people interpret it in their own ways and turn those interpretations into evil behaviors on their part. I think we've come full-circle here, there isn't much more to say. Nightowl >8# "It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends." (Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
Post #175,203 by mmoffitt 9/20/04 2:56:43 PM Reply	NO! Well then it's clear to me that the Bible (or other texts) aren't what's evil, it's the way individuals interpret the words that can become evil. NOT AT ALL. It IS the interpretation that makes it humane! The plain text explicitly calls for atrocities to be committed against any and all non-believers! That is WITHOUT interpretation. bcnu, Mikem "The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism." -Ted Grant
Post #175,213 by Nightowl 9/20/04 3:28:44 PM Reply	Same thing They either interpret it LITERALLY or FIGURATIVELY. It's still all about how people take the words and their meanings. Nightowl >8# "It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends." (Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).

Heartbreaking - (tuberculosis) - (113) - Aug. 21, 2007, 12:42:07 PM EDT

I'm confused...--- here's the story - (Nightowl) - (1) - Sept. 16, 2004, 08:39:32 PM EDT

Alana is a fairly common name. -NT - (mmoffitt) - Sept. 17, 2004, 12:29:01 PM EDT

A thousand years in prison... - (pwhysall) - (109) - Sept. 17, 2004, 12:11:28 AM EDT

I have that sense as well. - (mmoffitt) - (106) - Sept. 17, 2004, 12:30:17 PM EDT

It's not about religion - (imric) - (105) - Sept. 17, 2004, 12:53:50 PM EDT

But religion bars any reason. - (mmoffitt) - (104) - Sept. 17, 2004, 01:02:29 PM EDT

Could substitute "politics" for "religion" there. - (Another Scott) - (1) - Sept. 17, 2004, 01:31:17 PM EDT

Or anything else - (Nightowl) - Sept. 17, 2004, 01:49:24 PM EDT

"getting the lunatic to abandon what he holds most dear" - (imric) - (35) - Sept. 17, 2004, 03:28:07 PM EDT

Any? Perhaps. - (mmoffitt) - (34) - Sept. 17, 2004, 05:38:45 PM EDT

Re: Any? Perhaps. - (Nightowl) - (9) - Sept. 17, 2004, 05:44:20 PM EDT

If a Christian does not believe anyone should be condemned.. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Sept. 17, 2004, 05:55:25 PM EDT

There's a difference - (Nightowl) - Sept. 17, 2004, 06:01:41 PM EDT

Uhhh, Owlsley... - (jb4) - (6) - Sept. 17, 2004, 06:26:23 PM EDT

Let me clarify - (Nightowl) - (5) - Sept. 17, 2004, 06:31:19 PM EDT

Re: Let me clarify - (jb4) - (3) - Sept. 17, 2004, 06:50:19 PM EDT

Not forgetting... - (pwhysall) - (1) - Sept. 18, 2004, 03:36:25 AM EDT

How could I forget...! - (jb4) - Sept. 20, 2004, 12:49:49 PM EDT

Unfortunately (new thread) - (Nightowl) - Sept. 18, 2004, 09:56:23 AM EDT

On Christian churches... (new thread) - (Another Scott) - Sept. 17, 2004, 07:38:14 PM EDT

You sure? - (imric) - (23) - Sept. 17, 2004, 06:07:13 PM EDT

Very well stated - (Nightowl) - Sept. 17, 2004, 06:10:46 PM EDT

I am condemning that which nurtures... - (mmoffitt) - (21) - Sept. 17, 2004, 07:32:14 PM EDT

"History is on my side" - (imric) - (18) - Sept. 17, 2004, 08:01:23 PM EDT

Alexander of Macedonia, - (Arkadiy) - Sept. 17, 2004, 08:18:35 PM EDT

Religion is not the only motivation for slaughter. - (a6l6e6x) - (2) - Sept. 18, 2004, 02:22:01 AM EDT

And, of course - (imric) - Sept. 18, 2004, 08:58:00 AM EDT

The "chosen people" do have many more - (Arkadiy) - Sept. 18, 2004, 12:39:40 PM EDT

"You Have to be Carefully Taught - (Ashton) - (1) - Sept. 18, 2004, 06:11:33 AM EDT

For Those Too Lazy To Google - (pwhysall) - Sept. 18, 2004, 06:41:36 AM EDT

See Jesus 'quote' in this thread re:The Civil War. - (mmoffitt) - (11) - Sept. 18, 2004, 07:20:16 AM EDT

See my first post, re justification. - (imric) - (10) - Sept. 18, 2004, 08:20:30 AM EDT

Well yes - that's 'true' - (Ashton) - (7) - Sept. 18, 2004, 09:28:05 PM EDT

Believe it or not, I understand and somewhat agree - (imric) - (6) - Sept. 18, 2004, 11:50:25 PM EDT

'Religion' oft has little or zippo to do with 'spirituality' - (Ashton) - (5) - Sept. 19, 2004, 02:59:44 AM EDT

Uh huh. - (imric) - (4) - Sept. 19, 2004, 08:40:55 AM EDT

A little more explanation please? - (Nightowl) - (2) - Sept. 19, 2004, 02:03:12 PM EDT

With Ash, it can be sometimes hard, - (imric) - (1) - Sept. 19, 2004, 02:21:33 PM EDT

Trust me, I know that - (Nightowl) - Sept. 19, 2004, 02:35:12 PM EDT

Heh.. I 'splain how ya can end war n'stuff (new thread) - (Ashton) - Sept. 20, 2004, 04:20:23 AM EDT

I see nothing wrong with that posistion - (JayMehaffey) - (1) - Sept. 18, 2004, 10:25:53 PM EDT

*smile* -NT - (imric) - Sept. 18, 2004, 11:52:57 PM EDT

Well, I consider that... - (Nightowl) - (1) - Sept. 18, 2004, 10:07:57 AM EDT

You'd be wrong - (jake123) - Sept. 18, 2004, 01:10:34 PM EDT

The base of religion is faith - (Simon_Jester) - (65) - Sept. 17, 2004, 04:51:04 PM EDT

Counter-example to your last. - (mmoffitt) - (63) - Sept. 17, 2004, 05:25:06 PM EDT

Huh? No way! - (Nightowl) - Sept. 17, 2004, 05:32:08 PM EDT

What you just said is a sin - (Arkadiy) - (57) - Sept. 17, 2004, 05:35:55 PM EDT

Just read the texts, man. - (mmoffitt) - (56) - Sept. 17, 2004, 05:44:57 PM EDT

The Lord - (Arkadiy) - (55) - Sept. 17, 2004, 05:48:28 PM EDT

Exactly - (Nightowl) - Sept. 17, 2004, 06:08:52 PM EDT

The [owner] thing wasn't mine. - (mmoffitt) - (53) - Sept. 17, 2004, 07:35:06 PM EDT

None so dumb as who won't think. -NT - (Arkadiy) - (52) - Sept. 17, 2004, 08:16:32 PM EDT

Heh. - (mmoffitt) - (51) - Sept. 18, 2004, 07:18:03 AM EDT

That's evidence? - (imric) - Sept. 18, 2004, 08:48:48 AM EDT

What third parties? - (Arkadiy) - (49) - Sept. 18, 2004, 12:41:20 PM EDT

Interpretation? You're interpretting ferchrissakes. - (mmoffitt) - (48) - Sept. 20, 2004, 12:09:25 PM EDT

Not even close - (Nightowl) - (6) - Sept. 20, 2004, 12:33:59 PM EDT

<sigh> - (mmoffitt) - (5) - Sept. 20, 2004, 12:42:10 PM EDT

Not sure - (Nightowl) - (4) - Sept. 20, 2004, 12:46:07 PM EDT

The nut. - (mmoffitt) - (3) - Sept. 20, 2004, 12:54:57 PM EDT

Ah ok - (Nightowl) - (2) - Sept. 20, 2004, 01:00:14 PM EDT

NO! - (mmoffitt) - (1) - Sept. 20, 2004, 02:56:43 PM EDT

Same thing - (Nightowl) - Sept. 20, 2004, 03:28:44 PM EDT

No kudos to you for repeating - (imric) - (8) - Sept. 20, 2004, 01:04:54 PM EDT

Huh? - (mmoffitt) - (7) - Sept. 20, 2004, 02:54:43 PM EDT

Go ahead - change your point - (imric) - (6) - Sept. 20, 2004, 03:14:38 PM EDT

Yes! - (Nightowl) - (2) - Sept. 20, 2004, 03:30:53 PM EDT

*chuckle* - (imric) - (1) - Sept. 20, 2004, 03:33:05 PM EDT

True, but - (Nightowl) - Sept. 20, 2004, 03:46:11 PM EDT

Hey, that's *graduate* philosophies ;-) - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Sept. 20, 2004, 03:39:17 PM EDT

Is it? - (imric) - (1) - Sept. 20, 2004, 04:00:05 PM EDT

Re: Is it? - (Nightowl) - Sept. 20, 2004, 04:34:41 PM EDT

Ego is Id - (ChrisR) - (3) - Sept. 20, 2004, 01:15:19 PM EDT

I'm not sure about a non-theist, because I'm not one. - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Sept. 20, 2004, 02:49:04 PM EDT

So which passage says that we should commit violence? - (ChrisR) - (1) - Sept. 20, 2004, 04:09:03 PM EDT

Wow, great response! - (Nightowl) - Sept. 20, 2004, 04:39:34 PM EDT

I guess it all depends on what's - (Arkadiy) - (27) - Sept. 20, 2004, 02:55:05 PM EDT

I could be wrong about this, but I think "case" - (mmoffitt) - (26) - Sept. 20, 2004, 03:06:59 PM EDT

It's a parable - (Arkadiy) - (25) - Sept. 20, 2004, 03:13:18 PM EDT

Re: It's a parable - (Nightowl) - (3) - Sept. 20, 2004, 03:43:11 PM EDT

"New Covenant" hmmmmmmm..... - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Sept. 21, 2004, 09:27:32 AM EDT

Ooops -- ignore.. moving to religion as requested - (Nightowl) - (1) - Sept. 21, 2004, 11:40:13 AM EDT

I have no idea what you're talking about (new thread) - (Nightowl) - Sept. 21, 2004, 11:41:00 AM EDT

The "unbelievers" are a class. - (mmoffitt) - (20) - Sept. 20, 2004, 03:46:09 PM EDT

How is that clear? - (Nightowl) - Sept. 20, 2004, 03:50:28 PM EDT

Oh my. A class. - (Arkadiy) - (18) - Sept. 20, 2004, 05:56:31 PM EDT

Psssst! Don't tell Bryce..... -NT - (jb4) - (12) - Sept. 20, 2004, 06:21:25 PM EDT

Remember, the meek shall inherit the earth... -NT - (pwhysall) - (11) - Sept. 20, 2004, 06:24:15 PM EDT

And what did poor bastards do to deserver such fate? -NT - (Arkadiy) - Sept. 20, 2004, 06:43:10 PM EDT

6' deep 6' long and 4' wide -NT - (boxley) - (8) - Sept. 20, 2004, 09:17:15 PM EDT

4' wide?????? - (Nightowl) - (2) - Sept. 20, 2004, 09:37:45 PM EDT

take a measuring tape to your next funeral 4' wide -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Sept. 21, 2004, 09:37:24 AM EDT

Was just at a wake (new thread) - (Nightowl) - Sept. 21, 2004, 11:42:40 AM EDT

And it's Christian thing to share... - (a6l6e6x) - (4) - Sept. 20, 2004, 09:48:53 PM EDT

Okay, that's it - (jake123) - (3) - Sept. 20, 2004, 11:18:01 PM EDT

Well, we tried earlier - (Nightowl) - (2) - Sept. 20, 2004, 11:24:44 PM EDT

YOU ALL SUCK - (pwhysall) - (1) - Sept. 21, 2004, 03:13:26 AM EDT

Oddly enough, I got it (new thread) - (orion) - Sept. 23, 2004, 10:56:58 PM EDT

Since when was Bryce meek? -NT - (jb4) - Sept. 21, 2004, 01:07:16 PM EDT

Almost, but not quite. - (mmoffitt) - (4) - Sept. 21, 2004, 09:24:21 AM EDT

Read it carefully - (Arkadiy) - (3) - Sept. 21, 2004, 09:34:10 AM EDT

You made my point. - (mmoffitt) - (2) - Sept. 21, 2004, 08:55:56 PM EDT

Ashton mode on - (Arkadiy) - (1) - Sept. 22, 2004, 08:59:18 AM EDT

I like [referent] mode better. - (Ashton) - Sept. 22, 2004, 07:11:50 PM EDT

Re: Counter-example to your last. - (Simon_Jester) - Sept. 17, 2004, 07:36:20 PM EDT

No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition! - (pwhysall) - (1) - Sept. 18, 2004, 03:44:00 AM EDT

Thanks! I was waiting for that ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - Sept. 18, 2004, 07:17:17 AM EDT

And who commissioned that Inquisition? Church or state? -NT - (FuManChu) - Sept. 21, 2004, 01:43:24 PM EDT

Been there. Done that. - (Ashton) - Sept. 18, 2004, 07:17:29 AM EDT

Electicity is quicker and cheaper! - (a6l6e6x) - (1) - Sept. 17, 2004, 12:45:21 PM EDT

You got you a mean streak in ya.... -NT - (jb4) - Sept. 17, 2004, 01:29:47 PM EDT

One note (images included) - (jake123) - Sept. 17, 2004, 02:20:58 PM EDT

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