Uhhh, Owlsley...

Post #174,866 by jb4 9/17/04 6:24:47 PM 9/17/04 6:26:23 PM Reply	Uhhh, Owlsley... Back up just a minute here... We don't feel anyone should be condemmed to hell. That's what is taught that God feels, but I don't know that all Christians/etc believe they really should be. We'll just pass on the myriad historical counter-examples for the time being, and focus on the abstract. Exactly what do you think excommunication is? It is the severing of the individual from the Church, and thereby damning him/her for now and ever after.... So, yes, I'd say that any devout religious devotee who believes in excommunication as a viable punishment for non-piety does indeed believe in condemnation. And you can be damn sure (pun intended) that those who hold what passes for power in a religious community damn well (again, pun intended) knows it, and can and will wield it as a cudgel when it suits his (and it's always 'his') fancy. [Edit: typos, of course...] jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT Edited by jb4 Sept. 17, 2004, 06:26:23 PM EDT Uhhh, Owlsley... Back up just a minute here... We don't feel anyone should be condemmed to hell. That's what is taught that God feels, but I don't know that all Christians/etc believe they really should be. We'll just pass on the myriad historical counter-examples for tyhe time being, and focus on the abstract. Exactly what do you think excommunication is? It is the severing of the individual from the Church, and thereby damning him/her for now and ever after.... So, yes, I'd say that any devout religious devotee who believes in excommunication as a viable punishment for non-piety does indeed believe in condemnation. And you can be damn sure (pun intended) that those who hold what passes for power in a religious community damn well (again, pun intended) knows it, and can ande will wield it as a cudgel when it suits his (and it's always 'his') fancy. jb4 shrubbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT Collapse All History
Post #174,867 by Nightowl 9/17/04 6:31:19 PM Reply	Let me clarify We don't feel anyone should be condemmed to hell. That's what is taught that God feels, but I don't know that all Christians/etc believe they really should be. The above statement refers to Christian religion, I don't mean ALL Christians, I mean the Christian Church. What other denominations feel I don't know. As I said before, we accept that this is God's choice to send them to Hell, but that doesn't mean we would have made that choice, it's God's will, not ours. We'll just pass on the myriad historical counter-examples for tyhe time being, and focus on the abstract. Exactly what do you think excommunication is? It is the severing of the individual from the Church, and thereby damning him/her for now and ever after.... Excommunication from the church is Catholic (as far as I know), and I have no idea what Catholics all do, but I don't believe they should ever be barred from the church. Maybe barred from working with children if they molested someone, but not from the church. And I don't believe that they shouldn't be allowed communion. However, I'm not a Catholic, so it doesn't matter what I think. So, yes, I'd say that any devout religious devotee who believes in excommunication as a viable punishment for non-piety does indeed believe in condemnation. And you can be damn sure (pun intended) that those who hold what passes for power in a religious community damn well (again, pun intended) knows it, and can ande will wield it as a cudgel when it suits his (and it's always 'his') fancy. I'm saying, not me. And my church has never banned anyone from attending or being there. Only exception wasn't even in our power, it was when the youth leader was found to be the head of the KKK and was involved in a crime. They fired him, but we didn't forbid him to attend, just to lead. However, he went to jail, so it he wasn't given a choice either. I wish no one had to go to Hell, I wish God could find other solutions, but since I choose to believe in Him, I am obligated to accept His will, however mystifying or confusing it might be. Nightowl >8# "It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends." (Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
Post #174,871 by jb4 9/17/04 6:50:19 PM Reply	Re: Let me clarify I don't mean ALL Christians, I mean the Christian Church. What other denominations feel I don't know. Well, lemeesee: We gotcher Catholick Church 'ere, then we gocher Lutherans, then the Episcopalians, and the Methodists over dere, and...Sumbuddy said sumpin' about YOUnitarians, and, oh yeah...dere's them-thar PresBeeTarians, and...Damn! Almost fergot 'bout them Baptists..... So tell me, Ms. Owlsley, which Christian church from the above list are you referring to -- or are you refering to any number of other Christian Churches that I negelected to mention (the Greek Orthodox Churches are Quite ornate, I am to understand...) ;-\ufffd Excommunication from the church is Catholic (as far as I know) Yes, and Lutheran, too, and a number of other Protestant sects also practice it. As do the Mormons (You know, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints). And you certainly can get yerself run out of the Temple of your choice by the local Rabbi. (IIRC Rabbi Jesus of Nazareth did just such a thing on one memorable day....) A good test would be to propose the Christian Church in question sanctify same-sex marriages in Jesus's name, and see what the half-life of your soul in the eyes of said Church would be.... I wish no one had to go to Hell, I wish God could find other solutions, but since I choose to believe in Him, I am obligated to accept His will, however mystifying or confusing it might be. Or you could practice a religion where such rubbish is not taught. Buddahism might be a good place to start.... jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #174,904 by pwhysall 9/18/04 3:36:25 AM Reply	Not forgetting... ...the tongue-speaking, snake-handling, baptising-in-the-spirit, hellfire-and-brimstone deliverance ministry of Pentecostalism. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #175,183 by jb4 9/20/04 12:49:49 PM Reply	How could I forget...! Get thee to the Tent! jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #174,931 by Nightowl 9/18/04 9:56:23 AM Reply	Unfortunately (new thread) Created as new thread #174930 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=174930\|Unfortunately] "It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends." (Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
Post #174,880 by Another Scott 9/17/04 7:38:14 PM Reply	On Christian churches... (new thread) Created as new thread #174879 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=174879\|On Christian churches...]

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