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New Okay, I'll play.
Exactly, why did we need to get rid of Saddam? And please, don't lecture me about what an evil bastard he is/was. I was screaming about that when you were probably still in high school and I was in college back when Saddam was "the leading force for moderation in the region" according to the Reagan Administration (circa that famous handshake above).
New We didn't.
You really haven't been paying attention, have you?

The question is, when arresting and prosecuting terrorists, what do you do when you have >governments< complicit in the terrorism?

Do you stroll into Libya and arrest Khadaffi? He bankrolled the bombing of a 747. We arrested those "responsible", but we didn't get all of those complicit in the attack.

The point being, fighting terrorism is NOT as simple as "arresting terrorists".
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New ?
The question is, when arresting and prosecuting terrorists, what do you do when you have >governments< complicit in the terrorism?

Central America anyone? Or are "Death Squads" not terrorists? The United States (in particular the United States when run by folks like Reagan, Bush I, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et. al.) has a history of supporting terrorists. I'm just cautioning you about living in a glass house and pitching rocks.

[Edit: Supporting terrorists, not terrorist nations]
Expand Edited by mmoffitt April 18, 2004, 03:34:08 PM EDT
New So fine.
What do you do?
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Vote for smarter people ;0)
I saw Kerry on "Face the Nation" today. I'd go along with him for the most part. Russert tried to beat him up over his position that fighting terrorism "is not primarily a military action" but a primarily a law enforcement, intelligence action.

Bombing Iraq for the sake of "defendin' mah daddee" didn't do a lot for rooting out terrorist organizations (which, mind you, I do not think are that great a threat in the first place. Sure, we should pay attention. Sure, we can't have slackers in the CIA, FBI and White House. Yes, we've got to have a President who pays attention even when he is on the longest Presidential Vacation in history. But most Americans - no, probably ALL Americans are more likely to be killed by their automobiles on the way to work than they are to become a victim of terrorism).

In pursuing those responsible for 9/11, imagine where Osama would be today if we had sent the same number of troops into Afghanistan when we had Osama cornered in Tora Bora as we sent into Iraq.

I don't claim to have all the answers, but it is clear to me that the current crop has none of the answers.
New I wish there were some to vote for.
We're back to a lesser of 2 evils choice again. It would be nice to see someone smart actually run. Unfortunately, the fact that their smart automatically excludes them from consideration.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
     testimony of Dr. Strangerice - (rcareaga) - (176)
         NPR stream at work. - (mmoffitt) - (31)
             My take since fall 2001 - (GBert) - (30)
                 Heh. I'm not that jaded, but interestingly, ... - (mmoffitt) - (29)
                     But you might become that jaded - (jb4) - (27)
                         If that's true. - (mmoffitt) - (26)
                             Dude...they weren't ELECTED, remember? - (jb4) - (25)
                                 name one scenario that gore wins - (boxley) - (24)
                                     'Cept Clinton *WAS* impeached IIRC... - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                                         true -NT - (boxley)
                                     Right, box. How'd I forget? - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                         3k, would have pushed gore over, -NT - (boxley)
                                     Umm, count the votes? - (Silverlock) - (13)
                                         um, they did repeatedly in all counties - (boxley) - (12)
                                             You said name one. - (Silverlock) - (4)
                                                 each method you describe doesnt get gore into the whitehouse - (boxley) - (3)
                                                     Saying black is white doesn't make it so. -NT - (Silverlock) - (2)
                                                         so why do you keep saying it? -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                             I know you are but what am I? :) -NT - (Silverlock)
                                             Re: um, they did repeatedly in all counties - (inthane-chan) - (6)
                                                 what roadblocks where in the constitution does it say revote - (boxley) - (5)
                                                     The Constitution doesn't say ... - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                         the constitution explicitly states how the president is - (boxley) - (3)
                                                             So your answer is yes. ;-p -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                 you can abandon the constitution, I wont -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                     Seems you *have*, already. -NT - (CRConrad)
                                     What if, what if, what if... - (jb4) - (5)
                                         nope electoral college voted him in, just like in the manual - (boxley) - (4)
                                             constitution sez, election by *properly elected* electoral. -NT - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                                 you want to explain? - (boxley) - (2)
                                                     Florida electoral college was -S-elected by US Supreme Court - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                         Florida electoral was not selected by the supremes - (boxley)
                     ICLRPD (new thread) - (drewk)
         Re: testimony of Dr. Strangerice - (JayMehaffey) - (5)
             Not this crap again. - (bepatient) - (4)
                 Nahnahnah. I ... cant .. hear ... you - (altmann) - (1)
                     Same BS. - (bepatient)
                 The point in this case is valid - (JayMehaffey) - (1)
                     No they didn't. - (bepatient)
         Rice's testimony: executive summary - (rcareaga) - (5)
             Tom Shales' take. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                 Interesting tidbit. - (inthane-chan) - (3)
                     ADMIN: please fix the above post! - (jb4) - (2)
                         Sorry! Fixed! -NT - (inthane-chan) - (1)
                             Thanks! -NT - (jb4)
         I hope this is wrong. - (mmoffitt) - (131)
             Oh dear. - (bepatient) - (130)
                 I hate to say it - (jake123) - (1)
                     Nit: "win again". They have never won. They were appointed. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                 I thought most had paid attention. - (mmoffitt)
                 Yeah, someone did indeed say something different than her! - (jb4) - (126)
                     I would guess... - (bepatient) - (41)
                         It's not the Commission's Responsibility, it's ours. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                         It wasn't historical at the time... -NT - (admin) - (3)
                             It was over 3 yrs old at the time. - (bepatient) - (2)
                                 Re: It was over 3 yrs old at the time. - (admin) - (1)
                                     The document itself is in my post. HTH. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                         None so blind as they that won't see. - (mmoffitt) - (35)
                             And so... - (bepatient) - (34)
                                 Nice duck. - (mmoffitt) - (33)
                                     Go ahead. - (bepatient) - (32)
                                         Can any of you clowns remember what you're arguing ABOUT? -NT - (pwhysall) - (30)
                                             what does that have to do with anything :-) -NT - (boxley)
                                             Oh, oh I am sorry,... - (bepatient)
                                             Here it is: It was over 3 yrs old at the time. - (mmoffitt) - (27)
                                                 Re: Here it is: It was over 3 yrs old at the time. - (bepatient) - (26)
                                                     You're just jaggin' me again, aren't you? - (mmoffitt) - (25)
                                                         yeah and the feebs are still looking for hoffa :-) -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                                                             <herring color=bright red>preceding post</herring> -NT - (jb4) - (1)
                                                                 name one case that wasnt broken by a rat - (boxley)
                                                         You seem to be serious. - (bepatient) - (21)
                                                             Even if I accept that, you must accept that ... - (mmoffitt) - (20)
                                                                 Certainly. - (bepatient) - (19)
                                                                     What was the title of the briefing? - (Silverlock) - (1)
                                                                         Discourse on whose terms. - (bepatient)
                                                                     If all the briefings were release, or even the full text ... - (mmoffitt) - (16)
                                                                         Nope, sorry, try again. - (bepatient) - (15)
                                                                             Just two cents... - (GBert)
                                                                             Well, at least you dropped the "3 year old" bit. <sigh> -NT - (mmoffitt) - (13)
                                                                                 Point fingers all you like. - (bepatient) - (12)
                                                                                     Where'd I say that? - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                                                                                         No I didn't admit that. - (bepatient) - (10)
                                                                                             Can we cut to the chase? - (pwhysall) - (9)
                                                                                                 Shall I quote more Python? -NT - (bepatient) - (8)
                                                                                                     Please do - (pwhysall) - (7)
                                                                                                         Right. What was I thinking? - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                                                                                                             Never mind. - (bepatient) - (5)
                                                                                                                 And 2 == 1, for very large values of 1________:-\ufffd -NT - (jb4) - (1)
                                                                                                                     :-D -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                                 It finally makes sense. - (Silverlock) - (2)
                                                                                                                     check out tom tommorow for the definitions - (boxley)
                                                                                                                     That's an ancient remark. - (mmoffitt)
                                         You READ IT. - (mmoffitt)
                     Here's a breakdown of her lies - (Silverlock) - (83)
                         I've read through those. - (bepatient) - (81)
                             Seems to me... - (admin)
                             You SURE you read this somewhere? - (jb4) - (79)
                                 I did not have sex with that woman, miss lewinski - (boxley) - (78)
                                     Ermmmm.....Say What?!? - (jb4) - (77)
                                         Beeps point was quite clear, and you have watched it swish - (boxley) - (73)
                                             whew. - (bepatient) - (5)
                                                 But your spelling is notoriously faulty - (jb4) - (4)
                                                     Yup, got that; it's obvious. (WTF YM, "even" I can get it?) -NT - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                                         Its a metaphor....or is that a simile...or a euphemism... - (jb4) - (2)
                                                             I'm the fookin' native speaker. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                 Sorry, mr Inferior Whisky-Like Beverage 4, but Peter's right -NT - (CRConrad)
                                             Nit - (Silverlock) - (66)
                                                 Yes it is. - (bepatient) - (65)
                                                     I've held these positions long before this doc came out - (Silverlock) - (64)
                                                         None so blind as they can't see. - (bepatient) - (63)
                                                             Guiduin invoked thread closed :-) -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                 Who invoked Guido-an? -NT - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                     And where's Nunzio? -NT - (inthane-chan)
                                                                     Gallic Godwin :-) -NT - (boxley)
                                                             Small problem - (Silverlock) - (56)
                                                                 Don't joust with the Master - (jb4) - (55)
                                                                     They are his words. - (bepatient) - (54)
                                                                         The grasshopper objects. - (Silverlock) - (53)
                                                                             I don't believe - (bepatient) - (52)
                                                                                 Have you all gone completely INSANE ??? - (CRConrad) - (51)
                                                                                     Bravo - (jbrabeck)
                                                                                     Ok. Call it what you want. - (bepatient) - (7)
                                                                                         We are (used to be?) a nation of laws, beep. - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                                                                             I don't think you get it either. - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                                 Whose threatening? - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                 I dunno, BeeP - (jb4)
                                                                                                 Depends on what you regard prison AS. - (pwhysall)
                                                                                         Declare war then. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                             war IS a business, when has it not been? - (boxley)
                                                                                     Not all of us, but an alarmingly high percentage. - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                     got yer declaration right here - (boxley) - (26)
                                                                                         I declare War on Microsoft. - (mmoffitt) - (17)
                                                                                             Its one thing to declare it. - (bepatient) - (16)
                                                                                                 Then I'd be a murderer, not a nation-state capable of - (mmoffitt) - (15)
                                                                                                     Ah. And what would the leader - (bepatient) - (14)
                                                                                                         Be very careful with that argument. - (mmoffitt) - (13)
                                                                                                             And what would these things do... - (bepatient) - (12)
                                                                                                                 *Boggle* - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                                                                                                                     We've been through this before. - (Another Scott) - (10)
                                                                                                                         Why I cautioned Beep. - (mmoffitt) - (9)
                                                                                                                             It wasn't funding I was discussing. - (bepatient) - (8)
                                                                                                                                 I (mis?)read this one. - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                                                                                     I would generally say no. - (bepatient) - (6)
                                                                                                                                         Okay, I'll play. - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                                                                                                             We didn't. - (bepatient) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                 ? - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                     So fine. - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                         Vote for smarter people ;0) - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                             I wish there were some to vote for. - (bepatient)
                                                                                         So declare war, or else STFU. - (pwhysall) - (7)
                                                                                             google bush declares war on Al Quida - (boxley) - (6)
                                                                                                 Neato. - (pwhysall) - (5)
                                                                                                     cant help if you are uneducated - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                         Whatever. -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                     War on Terrorism as successful as the War on Drugs. - (Silverlock) - (2)
                                                                                                         Someone please fork this damn thing -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                                                             Forked Dr. Strangelove. (new thread) - (jbrabeck)
                                                                                     It's an old problem. - (Another Scott) - (13)
                                                                                         And that attitude. - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                                                             If you want it to be a "law enforcement issue" - (bepatient) - (4)
                                                                                                 You want it to be a "war"? - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                                     I want it solved. - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                                                         Simple solution - (jbrabeck) - (1)
                                                                                                             When, indeed! - (jb4)
                                                                                         That's not a declaration of war. - (pwhysall) - (6)
                                                                                             But Peter, - (jbrabeck) - (4)
                                                                                                 Can someone please fork a new thread (or several)? -NT - (drewk) - (3)
                                                                                                     It'll probably die soon. - (Another Scott)
                                                                                                     Yeah darnit...FORK this thread! -NT - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                                         Knifing it is too much work -NT - (Arkadiy)
                                                                                             Not in the traditional sense. - (Another Scott)
                                                             4/13/2004 Tom Toles (78 kB .gif) (new thread) - (Another Scott)
                                                             Yes, there are - those that *won't*, even though they *can*. - (CRConrad)
                                         Necroeqquiphilia can do that to a person. -NT - (altmann) - (2)
                                             Necroeqquiphilia; I'll have to remember that one ;-) -NT - (bbronson)
                                             ICLRPD (new thread) - (jb4)
                         and they STILL don't get it! - (jb4)

In a hole in the ground there lived a Hobbit.
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