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New So, then, what happened?
(and don't think for a moment I consider Bible banging Christian fundamentalist thugs one bit better than any other sect of the Judaeo-Christian-Islamic line of religions).

How did the Islamic world fall from intellectual dominance into the hell hole of ignorance it is today? It certainly wasn't defeated by the Christians.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New And when?
From all appearances, the Islamic golden age had been in decline for some time before the Renaissance was under way.
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it."
-- Donald Knuth
New I am no scholar but...
I believe a combination of factors were at work. First of all there were internal factors, combined with external invasions. You had the Christian Crusades, then Ghengis Kahn, then Tamerlane and a resurgance of European power. Internally you had decadence and the growing ignorance of what the Koran said due to the fact that Arabic became less and less known to the general public. Judging by [link|http://users.erols.com/zenithco/decline1.htm|this lecture] on the topic, those combined with the internal decadence were the main problems that they see. (Incidentally that lecture contains a wonderful description of what the Arabic world was like at its height.)

However you then had several external factors that aren't so visible. First you had the great European voyages of discovery. Prior to those, the primary trading routes to the East went along the Great Silk Route, enrichening Islamic peoples on the way. But as it became cheaper for Europe to trade directly around the world, trade moved away from the expensive overland routes leading to an economic decline.

A second factor is a change in what you compare it to. An enlightened and prosperous society by the standards of 1000 AD is not so enlightened or prosperous by the standards of 1700, and it is downright downtrodden by the standards of 2000.

A third factor was Napoleon. From the Crusades to Napoleon, European military abilities progressed tremendously, but Europe continued to think of the Islamic world as much better than them militarily. Then Napoleon conquered Egypt without trouble and Europe realized how much things had changed. Very shortly thereafter you find European countries bullying the Islamic world pretty much at will. (Hence the famous comment about how sick the Ottoman Empire was - by size it was a great power, but even minor European countries were more powerful.)

Then we discovered the value of oil, and began playing games of realpolitik with their governments.

Cheers,
Ben
     Pakistani revolution predicted - (bluke) - (29)
         Re: I'm lazy ... - (dmarker2)
         err the general in charge IS an Islamic fundamentalist? -NT - (boxley) - (27)
             Err . . apparently he doesn't go to the right mosque. - (Andrew Grygus) - (26)
                 Can't say that. - (addison) - (24)
                     Did this "Islamic Golden Age" ever extend . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (23)
                         We're on the boundaries of my knowledge. - (addison) - (3)
                             I'm no expert either, but I'd like to put that another way: - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                 But...but.... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                     Some stuff is so obvious, don't need to be Xpert to know it -NT - (CRConrad)
                         I believe it did - a personal anecdote - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                             Surprised you didn't mention Al'Khwarizmi (~790-850 AD). - (a6l6e6x) - (5)
                                 Follow the link - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                     Indeed. I should have read more of the link. - (a6l6e6x) - (3)
                                         3 to 1, 2, 1. Probability factor of 1 to 1 - (bepatient) - (2)
                                             ^^ This is irritating ^^ -NT - (deSitter) - (1)
                                                 If there had been enough time... - (bepatient)
                         Re: Addison is making sense - you are not winning this arg - (dmarker2) - (7)
                             But he is open to evidence. - (brettj) - (2)
                                 Interesting nugget - (boxley)
                                 Re: But he is open to evidence - yes - (dmarker2)
                             The point was deliberately inflamitory . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (3)
                                 This is part of what made this thread interesting. - (brettj) - (1)
                                     Oh yeah? - (Silverlock)
                                 Are you sure - (cwbrenn)
                         Yup, AFAIK, it did. - (CRConrad) - (3)
                             So, then, what happened? - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                                 And when? - (wharris2)
                                 I am no scholar but... - (ben_tilly)
                 In that case, who the fsck CARES what they say?!? - (jb4)

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