Can't resist such a pregnant analysis..

Post #12,388 by Ashton 10/9/01 3:39:25 AM Reply	Can't resist such a pregnant analysis.. And so surprising to hear it from an Occidental :-\ufffd (Somehow I can't place India as 'Oriental' though.. India is India, re the metaphysical in full panoply. Maybe Occident is also obsolete.) Scholars catalogue the intricacies over entire careers. Joseph Campbell tried to express the origins of all religion in earliest myths, in his popular books. He nicely fills in the blanks - the origins - of much which Christianity presents as original and unique. (That's another forum I think.) Oddly, while 'multiple gods' appear to persist in Hindu variations - these are more for popular consumption, and closer study reveals that Siva = Rama = Vishnu in various forms. (Ganesha, the elephant-looking god, is particularly colorful). The idea of the necessity of destruction before renewal can occur - is apparently understood (and perhaps also - the folly of imagining one would want to physically 'live forever'!) I think that pretty much what you are suggesting as a possible (and desirable) evolution, overcoming of the Western-God wars - has long existed among the more ept in India. Anyone earnestly paying attention has recognized the 'Source' as within - whether called 'the Absolute' or by the subtleties of the Sanskrit names. Simply, the West would be catching up.. if it can and if it will. And if we live long enough. I guess it's ever a phenom of the newcomer to act the adolescent: in religion as elsewhere. My concern would be that nuclear weapons wielded by adolescents (and/or sociopaths) might well bring the experiment to a close quite pre-maturely. Anyway - nice synopsis cum motives; the Father characterization is like war IMhO: history and popular religions are spawned by the winners - most often men, who have ever seized the power. (And in the West, no matriarchies are ever mentioned to school children and 'religion' is always assumed to be something about ~'Christian dogma', at least in US schools.) How in Oz? Cheers, Ashton
Post #12,391 by dmarker2 10/9/01 4:48:59 AM Reply	Re: Isn't India enigmatic - idols & visions ... India produced the Budda - later China's Triptaka went to India to resolve contradictions in the teachings that had emerged in the Chinese translations. But Indian Buddism is steeped in vedic teachings and traditions. I find it so odd that so many Indians fervently worship milk drinking stone staues of Ganesha and yet the most enlightened among India's people are in the forefront of divining the 'inner' God. Their concept can be expanded to include that the inner God can be found in any living thing and in a basic form, any matter. The whole issue of the difference between inorganic matter & living organic matter is still part of the puzzel. Wilhelm Riech's attempts to take one & into the other with the addition of 'Universal Energy' (Orgone), was an intriguing perspective on the life / no life mystery. Still intigues me to this day. I still don't believe any human has succeeded in demostrating this transformation or clearly identifying the missing ingredient that allows one to become the other. It seems amazing that we humans can deduce that every universe is powered by a black hole, but we can't take a mix of inorganic material (soup) & show that it can be made organic (creating life of it). But the man who first can do this and clearly define and scope all ingredients, can surely claim to be a 'God' (the old fashioned type :-). Re religion in Australia - tis so long ago since I went to school It have no real idea what gets taught now other than that teachers must keep their hands off pupils (these days touching pupils for any purpose puts the fear of God into all sorts of people - esp paranoid parents). Cheers Doug
Post #12,393 by Ashton 10/9/01 6:06:38 AM Reply	Re: Isn't India enigmatic - idols & visions ... I think the "walking to the Ganges for water, then some humongous distance back - to pour water over an icon" represents the 'formatory' mindset, present in all populations. Ditto picking out your fav sub-deity for special attention. (Still.. Ganesha is the most compassionate of deities!) Always and everywhere are the 'circles' - with esoteric in the center. Believe it is at the esoteric level only, where the bells & whistles are dispensed with. Such questions as would imagine er transmuting inorganic into organic - creating 'life'? - just wouldn't arise. That would be a Western approach: analyze, induce, synthesize - the expectation of a process to be 'mastered'. Reich could be called a wannabe Western mystic - Orgone as umm phlogiston ? We have a hard time letting go of 'causality' and much else. That's why I don't see it as likely, that we can bridge the gap in mindset: we believe that $$ (and chemical elements) are Real! and that intellect can deduce it all. Words fail in that argument. (Whether or not the historical Jesus made it to India in the 'unchronicled years'? many of his ideas as expressed - preceeded him, there) Oh Well.. There is the concept of 'yugas' (some thousands of years) and this is supposed to be the most 'difficult' one from which to discern, well.. 'Truth'. There are ways (or Ways?) around the dificulty but - again - the noise of technology tends to interfere with following these, for most folk in typical daily situations. (In India today, as well) There have been a few Remarkable sages, in recent years - and with interesting attitudes towards 'seekers' from the West: believe that ~ people who have gone to that much trouble (?) are worthy of attention, while - (actually saying that!) "Indians today can't pay attention either / are lazy". Go figure. (Some English transcriptions of talks are jewels. One in particular, from the Marathi language, is remarkably clear - I'd say erudite in the precision and subtlety of the examples -- almost poetry even in the translation. One can only wonder.. and credit the translator for capturing that which could not possibly come from 'editing') It's always an interesting 'Play'. Ashton

Welcome to IWETHEY!