Looking for a Great Java GUI Development Tool

Post #11,497 by gdaustin 10/3/01 2:07:59 PM Reply	Looking for a Great Java GUI Development Tool To date we've been doing server-side Java, so we haven't chosen a good Java development tool. We've just been using our favorite editor (xemacs/nedit) with the good 'ole JDK and JDBC drivers from our favorite database. However, the boss has now put together a "demonstration" project where we'll have to take an existing MSDOS application and put together a Java GUI version of it by late November for a customer demo. Our desire is to turn the demo into a real working product next year. We originally evaluated IBM Visual Age because of the low $149 price if you don't use the J2EE tools (which we're not using). The solution needs to be cheap or free, like around $99 a seat. We might be able to fund a $995 product, but just for 1-2 seats. We're looking at WebGain and Visual Cafe in the $99 and $995 space. Both appear to have similar feature sets. The $99 is basically a simple GUI designer and Java code editor with some basic IDE functions. The $995 versions appear to be more complete, with lots more components and database tools. What we don't have are real world experiences with Cafe or JBuilder. I used Cafe 3.0 about 3 years ago, but the only thing I remember was that it was a huge clunky memory hog. I have both $99 evals downloaded and JBuilder seems to be easier to use than Cafe, but I haven't gotten very far with either one. Do any of you have a strong opinion on this? Also, I haven't really researched the "free" market to see what is out there. The key part is to quickly design some screens which mirror our MSDOS product screens with some of the new "gee whiz" functions of GUI's like menus and toolbars. Glen Austin
Post #11,503 by Fearless Freep 10/3/01 2:25:12 PM Reply	VA-Smalltalk Jay O'Connor "Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
Post #11,537 by Yendor 10/3/01 3:17:27 PM Reply	JBuilder. Get JBuilder. Plain and simple, straight-up-like. I've used Visual Café. It's a hog. It's buggy. It's a pain in the ass to work with. JBuilder, while it has its own issues, is a very nice program. I just upgraded from 4 to 5 here at work. It's a very nice program. Does J2EE, does JSP, does EJB. One of the nicest things about it, IMHO, is that if you switch platforms it goes with you since it's written in Java itself. -YendorMike "The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by the skeptics or the cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need people who dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
Post #11,566 by admin 10/3/01 5:05:50 PM Reply	Ditto Visual Cafe blows goats. However, I would step back and question why you would use Java for a GUI in the first place. If your aim is cross-platform compatibility, then fine, I'll buy that. But if it only has to run in Windows, use Delphi. Regards, -scott anderson
Post #11,592 by jb4 10/3/01 6:43:36 PM Reply	Use Delphi, or,... ...if you want to use an ANSI/IOS standard language, C++Builder (the skill sets transfer!) jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
Post #11,622 by CRConrad 10/3/01 8:10:40 PM Reply	Likewise, if you only want "cross-platform compatibility"... ...between Win32 and Linux, you could consider using Delphi (for Windows) and Kylix ("Delphi for Linux"). At least here in .fi, they sell 'em bundled (D6 Pro + K Desktop, + a VB-to-OP translator) as "Borland Cross-Platform RAD". Costs about a kilobuck, though, not just a hekto-. Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #11,718 by Fearless Freep 10/4/01 9:09:01 AM Reply	I wouldn't But if it only has to run in Windows, use Delphi. We've been using it for the past 4 - 6 months or so and the best we can say about it is "umm....it's got a better UI builder than Visual C++"; it's only other saving grace for us is a good COM based Python interface. Delphi looks like it was a really good tool for circa 1996 Jay O'Connor "Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
Post #11,722 by CRConrad 10/4/01 9:53:43 AM Reply	What's wrong with it?!? The Freep writes: [Quoting Scott:] But if it only has to run in Windows, use Delphi. We've been using it for the past 4 - 6 months or so and the best we can say about it is "umm....it's got a better UI builder than Visual C++"; So what, exactly, is wrong with the rest of it? it's only other saving grace for us is a good COM based Python interface. Oh, I see! So -- the problem is, that it isn't Python! Well, why the heck would anyone think it was?!? Or (which is more likely the problem here), why the heck are you trying to use it as if it were? If you want to use Python, why use Delphi at all? Also, aren't you the guy who uses to heap loads of (well-deserved, per se) scorn on C++ programmers who moan that Smalltalk doesn't work exactly like C++, telling them that they gotta get into the Smalltalk way of thinking? I hope you're not truly so blind you can't see the parallel... Delphi looks like it was a really good tool for circa 1996[.] Yeah, actually, it was; it was, then (as now), the very best tool around for general Windows programming. And how, exactly -- given that it hasn't stood still, but evolved and acquired loads of new capabilities, since then -- how does that make it any worse now?!? Like, would it have been better now, if it had been a really bad tool "for circa 1996"? (ObCheapShot: If that's the way it works, then maybe there's hope for your beloved Smalltalk some time in the future...) Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #11,754 by tseliot 10/4/01 12:03:55 PM Reply	Tritto. It's quite clean and efficient. That's her, officer! That's the woman that programmed me for evil!
Post #11,829 by slugbug 10/4/01 8:01:28 PM Reply	JBuilder or what about... .....Forte for Java 3.0.....download the Community Edition and try it.
Post #11,845 by gdaustin 10/4/01 10:09:11 PM Reply	Forte Actually, I already have it downloaded, but I'm on Java 1.3.0 and I need to get Java 1.3.1 after the 6, 4, and 1 year go to bed. We're a Delphi shop, so JBuilder is probably the best choice. Does Forte have integrated data control objects? We're trying to do a quick prototype with about 5 tables for a customer, and the data control objects make that work much easier... Nice to hear from you, Maggie. Hope everything is going well. Glen Austin
Post #11,960 by slugbug 10/5/01 2:37:14 PM Reply	Re: Forte Yes, integrated data control objects, but also new support for transparent persistence (JDO). Either JBuilder or Forte would be fine IMHO.....
Post #12,108 by dmarker2 10/6/01 10:44:20 PM Reply	Re: WebGain & Visual Cafe - same company I understand that Web Gain own the products now. Have been talking to Web Gain re end-to-end java tools & VC is their Java IDE Cheers Doug (PS have used VA4J since beta of V1 - it is pretty good - best in an Ent env VC is also good JBuilder used to be bloated & sluggish & buggy, but I now understand it is VG We also use TogethrJ but it is expensive. D
Post #12,135 by slugbug 10/7/01 11:16:24 AM Reply	Re: WebGain & Visual Cafe - same company Yes, WebGain owns Visual Cafe now and, supposedly, they are coming out with a new suite soon that combines Visual Cafe with their other tools. Have been checking out VA4J - 4.0 - it's pretty good. Have not looked at TogetherJ for a time. You say it is expensive. How does it compare to the others (e.g. JB5, FFJ, VA4J)?

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