but, but, but....

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Post #114,367 by slugbug 8/19/03 4:37:54 PM Reply	but, but, but.... ....good input, thank you. If you were going to teach my 9 y.o. niece some simple programming would you get her into emacs or something else? There is a perception out there that newbies really need the "comfort" of an IDE. However, in my travels I have found it much easier to teach 9-90 y.o. using things like TextPad. Agree? Disagree? -Slugbug
Post #114,372 by admin 8/19/03 4:43:14 PM Reply	Data point: Skewed, but here it is: My son Duncan uses emacs to program his web pages. He uses an IDE to do BASIC and Smalltalk. He likes emacs because it can edit anything. He likes the BASIC IDE because everything is laid out for a kid (multimedia, point and drag stuff, etc.). I just had him run through the emacs tutorial and he picked it up fairly quickly. IDEs will handle the nitty gritty of file creation, directory arrangement, etc. better than an editor. The editors will have a much simpler set of things to learn. Emacs, of course, has it all. ;-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #114,376 by Arkadiy 8/19/03 4:52:54 PM Reply	I will let you know in 4 years :) For _programming_ for a 9 years old, I'd probably use an IDE. Easier to teach to press a button than to type "gcc test.c; test" in a window. Plus, built-in debugger would allow to step through the code and see it in action. I still remember the thrill of first real debugger session in Turbo Pascal 5.5. Or, I might just add a button to emacs. And it supports debugging too. But then emacs turns into an IDE, and the whole question becomes moot. -- Less Is More. In my book, About Face, I introduce over 50 powerful design axioms. This is one of them. --Alan Cooper. The Inmates Are Running the Asylum

Care to be quotable on code editors? - (slugbug) - (75) - Aug. 18, 2003, 11:15:05 PM EDT

Sounds like you want to talk to our admin. - (Another Scott) - (6) - Aug. 18, 2003, 11:26:36 PM EDT

I'll give it a shot - (tjsinclair) - (5) - Aug. 19, 2003, 01:08:46 AM EDT

Thanks.... - (slugbug) - (4) - Aug. 19, 2003, 03:51:26 PM EDT

Teaching is a slightly different issue - (tjsinclair) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:40:19 PM EDT

Teaching - use whatever you like - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Aug. 20, 2003, 11:47:24 AM EDT

I do that as well - (tjsinclair) - Aug. 20, 2003, 01:47:58 PM EDT

rofl - (deSitter) - Aug. 20, 2003, 01:46:22 PM EDT

Re: Care to be quotable on code editors? - (deSitter) - (3) - Aug. 19, 2003, 12:54:16 AM EDT

no blame here.... - (slugbug) - (2) - Aug. 19, 2003, 03:54:46 PM EDT

of course! - (deSitter) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:43:52 PM EDT

rofl -NT - (slugbug) - Aug. 19, 2003, 09:41:58 PM EDT

Re: Care to be quotable on code editors? - (gdaustin) - (9) - Aug. 19, 2003, 12:56:56 AM EDT

I diverged. Here's the list. - (gdaustin) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:04:59 AM EDT

This is great...thank you! -NT - (slugbug) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:07:02 PM EDT

great input...compare utilities? - (slugbug) - (6) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:05:40 PM EDT

Compare Utilities - (gdaustin) - (4) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:25:42 PM EDT

On Second Thought - (gdaustin) - (3) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:40:01 PM EDT

Ok either way.... -NT - (slugbug) - (2) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:58:04 PM EDT

How far out is the article? - (gdaustin) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:00:18 PM EDT

It running.... - (slugbug) - Aug. 19, 2003, 09:57:03 PM EDT

opendiff on OS X is the best I've ever used - (tuberculosis) - Aug. 19, 2003, 06:12:12 PM EDT

OK - (tuberculosis) - (5) - Aug. 19, 2003, 03:37:25 AM EDT

best tool for the job.... - (slugbug) - (4) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:13:51 PM EDT

Debuggers... - (admin) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:21:11 PM EDT

I really need one - (tuberculosis) - Aug. 19, 2003, 06:00:54 PM EDT

PB stops working on projects above a certain size - (tuberculosis) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 06:08:32 PM EDT

Often overlooked - (deSitter) - Aug. 19, 2003, 06:11:52 PM EDT

2c deposited... - (static) - (4) - Aug. 19, 2003, 03:58:58 AM EDT

deposit accepted :-) - (slugbug) - (3) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:21:01 PM EDT

Gotta think about that... - (static) - Aug. 20, 2003, 08:03:53 AM EDT

Quoting okay. - (static) - (1) - Aug. 20, 2003, 10:57:27 PM EDT

Thanks very much! -NT - (slugbug) - Aug. 23, 2003, 10:20:43 AM EDT

I'll come back to this, but... - (admin) - (2) - Aug. 19, 2003, 08:13:51 AM EDT

so, maybe there is a more fundamental question.... - (slugbug) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:30:52 PM EDT

That's a physical description... - (admin) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:39:22 PM EDT

I use Emacs, - (Arkadiy) - (3) - Aug. 19, 2003, 10:10:17 AM EDT

but, but, but.... - (slugbug) - (2) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:37:54 PM EDT

Data point: - (admin) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:43:14 PM EDT

I will let you know in 4 years :) - (Arkadiy) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:52:54 PM EDT

Well in a Windows World... - (folkert) - (2) - Aug. 19, 2003, 06:11:37 PM EDT

Forgot that one... - (slugbug) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:40:39 PM EDT

Yes I meant Fast.... - (folkert) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:54:35 PM EDT

My necessities - (ChrisR) - (2) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:02:57 AM EDT

good info... - (slugbug) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:46:48 PM EDT

The problem I have with most IDE editors is the keymapping - (admin) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:49:54 PM EDT

And the answer is... - (admin) - (24) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:42:35 AM EDT

So.... - (slugbug) - (22) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:54:15 PM EDT

Re: So.... - (admin) - (20) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:04:33 PM EDT

Appropriate title? - (ChrisR) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:21:53 PM EDT

No.... for you, it's "Sir". ;-) -NT - (admin) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:24:28 PM EDT

titles, brilliant kids, and comparing programmers..... - (slugbug) - (10) - Aug. 19, 2003, 10:12:40 PM EDT

Pointy clicky... - (admin) - (5) - Aug. 19, 2003, 10:31:21 PM EDT

Definitely with Scott on this one... - (gdaustin) - (4) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:18:17 PM EDT

Disagree RE GUI development - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Aug. 20, 2003, 11:29:04 AM EDT

I like your Law so much I twikified it. - (FuManChu) - (1) - Aug. 20, 2003, 05:08:37 PM EDT

heh - cool -NT - (tuberculosis) - Aug. 20, 2003, 08:42:36 PM EDT

What he said... - (slugbug) - Aug. 23, 2003, 11:02:42 AM EDT

People buying the software... - (gdaustin) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:45:54 PM EDT

And the congregation said: - (folkert) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:50:10 PM EDT

Of Mice and Programmers... - (static) - Aug. 20, 2003, 08:24:34 AM EDT

Well, then in THAT case - (FuManChu) - Aug. 20, 2003, 11:03:50 AM EDT

Re: So.... - (deSitter) - (3) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:24:54 PM EDT

Nope. - (admin) - Aug. 20, 2003, 08:58:42 AM EDT

Re: So.... - (JimWeirich) - Aug. 20, 2003, 10:18:59 AM EDT

I modified the code... - (gdaustin) - Aug. 20, 2003, 10:40:03 PM EDT

Scott... - (slugbug) - (2) - Aug. 23, 2003, 11:07:44 AM EDT

Re: Scott... - (admin) - (1) - Aug. 23, 2003, 11:24:31 AM EDT

thanks... - (slugbug) - Aug. 23, 2003, 03:54:18 PM EDT

Re: So.... - (gdaustin) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:09:45 PM EDT

I'm still a vim man...but I respect what emacs can do. - (Simon_Jester) - Aug. 21, 2003, 10:25:35 PM EDT

emacs and visual slickedit - (hnick) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:38:01 PM EDT

Split-screen is nice in a text environment too... -NT - (admin) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:45:39 PM EDT

Aww, c'mon. This is always how the wars start! - (broomberg) - (1) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:09:31 PM EDT

Yeah, forgot about paren automatch. - (admin) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:14:30 PM EDT

Are there still people who work without syntax coloring? - (drewk) - Aug. 26, 2003, 11:06:17 AM EDT

It breathes. -MORE-
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