so, maybe there is a more fundamental question....

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Post #114,366

8/19/03 4:30:52 PM

so, maybe there is a more fundamental question....

....how to define what is an IDE versus a code editor?

For the purposes of this lovely piece, I'm defining code editing tools as having an editor and *separate* pluggable modules that enable you to do other functions, such as debug, compare, etc. You pick and choose the modules you need.

By contrast, I'm defining an IDE to mean that the tool includes both an editing function and all the other tools *within* the environment. In other words, your editor, debugger, compare tools come included together out-of-the-box, as it were.

Sucky definitions? Got any better ideas? I'm all ears...

-Slugbug

Post #114,368

Picture of admin

8/19/03 4:39:22 PM

That's a physical description...

As in how versus what.

I'll use two examples: emacs and JBuilder.

JBuilder has a built-in debugger. You can't get rid of it, and it only does Java.

Emacs uses whatever debugger you have on the system by wrapping it in a buffer and tying it to file type.

Both, for all intents and purposes, have an "integrated debugger". The only difference is whether you can swap it out or not.

"Integrated Development Environment" to me says that the program allows you to run various tools within the environment, whether they come as plugins or integral to the environment. Many code editors are approaching this from the bottom with plug-in architectures, and there are very few editors that *just* edit. The key in "IDE" is that the environment is aware of the tool and can use it in more than just ancillary fashion. Most IDEs and editors let you shell out to external tools.

I guess emacs is more of a unique beast. It's flexible, programmable, and agnostic, unlike most IDEs. However, it is aware of a wide variety of file types and external utilities, unlike most editors. It's an editor that has been extended into becoming an environment.

This is why I wub it so. ;-)

Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."

Care to be quotable on code editors? - (slugbug) - (75) - Aug. 18, 2003, 11:15:05 PM EDT

Sounds like you want to talk to our admin. - (Another Scott) - (6) - Aug. 18, 2003, 11:26:36 PM EDT

I'll give it a shot - (tjsinclair) - (5) - Aug. 19, 2003, 01:08:46 AM EDT

Thanks.... - (slugbug) - (4) - Aug. 19, 2003, 03:51:26 PM EDT

Teaching is a slightly different issue - (tjsinclair) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:40:19 PM EDT

Teaching - use whatever you like - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Aug. 20, 2003, 11:47:24 AM EDT

I do that as well - (tjsinclair) - Aug. 20, 2003, 01:47:58 PM EDT

rofl - (deSitter) - Aug. 20, 2003, 01:46:22 PM EDT

Re: Care to be quotable on code editors? - (deSitter) - (3) - Aug. 19, 2003, 12:54:16 AM EDT

no blame here.... - (slugbug) - (2) - Aug. 19, 2003, 03:54:46 PM EDT

of course! - (deSitter) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:43:52 PM EDT

rofl -NT - (slugbug) - Aug. 19, 2003, 09:41:58 PM EDT

Re: Care to be quotable on code editors? - (gdaustin) - (9) - Aug. 19, 2003, 12:56:56 AM EDT

I diverged. Here's the list. - (gdaustin) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:04:59 AM EDT

This is great...thank you! -NT - (slugbug) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:07:02 PM EDT

great input...compare utilities? - (slugbug) - (6) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:05:40 PM EDT

Compare Utilities - (gdaustin) - (4) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:25:42 PM EDT

On Second Thought - (gdaustin) - (3) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:40:01 PM EDT

Ok either way.... -NT - (slugbug) - (2) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:58:04 PM EDT

How far out is the article? - (gdaustin) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:00:18 PM EDT

It running.... - (slugbug) - Aug. 19, 2003, 09:57:03 PM EDT

opendiff on OS X is the best I've ever used - (tuberculosis) - Aug. 19, 2003, 06:12:12 PM EDT

OK - (tuberculosis) - (5) - Aug. 19, 2003, 03:37:25 AM EDT

best tool for the job.... - (slugbug) - (4) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:13:51 PM EDT

Debuggers... - (admin) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:21:11 PM EDT

I really need one - (tuberculosis) - Aug. 19, 2003, 06:00:54 PM EDT

PB stops working on projects above a certain size - (tuberculosis) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 06:08:32 PM EDT

Often overlooked - (deSitter) - Aug. 19, 2003, 06:11:52 PM EDT

2c deposited... - (static) - (4) - Aug. 19, 2003, 03:58:58 AM EDT

deposit accepted :-) - (slugbug) - (3) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:21:01 PM EDT

Gotta think about that... - (static) - Aug. 20, 2003, 08:03:53 AM EDT

Quoting okay. - (static) - (1) - Aug. 20, 2003, 10:57:27 PM EDT

Thanks very much! -NT - (slugbug) - Aug. 23, 2003, 10:20:43 AM EDT

I'll come back to this, but... - (admin) - (2) - Aug. 19, 2003, 08:13:51 AM EDT

so, maybe there is a more fundamental question.... - (slugbug) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:30:52 PM EDT

That's a physical description... - (admin) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:39:22 PM EDT

I use Emacs, - (Arkadiy) - (3) - Aug. 19, 2003, 10:10:17 AM EDT

but, but, but.... - (slugbug) - (2) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:37:54 PM EDT

Data point: - (admin) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:43:14 PM EDT

I will let you know in 4 years :) - (Arkadiy) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:52:54 PM EDT

Well in a Windows World... - (folkert) - (2) - Aug. 19, 2003, 06:11:37 PM EDT

Forgot that one... - (slugbug) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:40:39 PM EDT

Yes I meant Fast.... - (folkert) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:54:35 PM EDT

My necessities - (ChrisR) - (2) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:02:57 AM EDT

good info... - (slugbug) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:46:48 PM EDT

The problem I have with most IDE editors is the keymapping - (admin) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:49:54 PM EDT

And the answer is... - (admin) - (24) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:42:35 AM EDT

So.... - (slugbug) - (22) - Aug. 19, 2003, 04:54:15 PM EDT

Re: So.... - (admin) - (20) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:04:33 PM EDT

Appropriate title? - (ChrisR) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:21:53 PM EDT

No.... for you, it's "Sir". ;-) -NT - (admin) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:24:28 PM EDT

titles, brilliant kids, and comparing programmers..... - (slugbug) - (10) - Aug. 19, 2003, 10:12:40 PM EDT

Pointy clicky... - (admin) - (5) - Aug. 19, 2003, 10:31:21 PM EDT

Definitely with Scott on this one... - (gdaustin) - (4) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:18:17 PM EDT

Disagree RE GUI development - (tuberculosis) - (2) - Aug. 20, 2003, 11:29:04 AM EDT

I like your Law so much I twikified it. - (FuManChu) - (1) - Aug. 20, 2003, 05:08:37 PM EDT

heh - cool -NT - (tuberculosis) - Aug. 20, 2003, 08:42:36 PM EDT

What he said... - (slugbug) - Aug. 23, 2003, 11:02:42 AM EDT

People buying the software... - (gdaustin) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:45:54 PM EDT

And the congregation said: - (folkert) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:50:10 PM EDT

Of Mice and Programmers... - (static) - Aug. 20, 2003, 08:24:34 AM EDT

Well, then in THAT case - (FuManChu) - Aug. 20, 2003, 11:03:50 AM EDT

Re: So.... - (deSitter) - (3) - Aug. 19, 2003, 11:24:54 PM EDT

Nope. - (admin) - Aug. 20, 2003, 08:58:42 AM EDT

Re: So.... - (JimWeirich) - Aug. 20, 2003, 10:18:59 AM EDT

I modified the code... - (gdaustin) - Aug. 20, 2003, 10:40:03 PM EDT

Scott... - (slugbug) - (2) - Aug. 23, 2003, 11:07:44 AM EDT

Re: Scott... - (admin) - (1) - Aug. 23, 2003, 11:24:31 AM EDT

thanks... - (slugbug) - Aug. 23, 2003, 03:54:18 PM EDT

Re: So.... - (gdaustin) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:09:45 PM EDT

I'm still a vim man...but I respect what emacs can do. - (Simon_Jester) - Aug. 21, 2003, 10:25:35 PM EDT

emacs and visual slickedit - (hnick) - (1) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:38:01 PM EDT

Split-screen is nice in a text environment too... -NT - (admin) - Aug. 19, 2003, 05:45:39 PM EDT

Aww, c'mon. This is always how the wars start! - (broomberg) - (1) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:09:31 PM EDT

Yeah, forgot about paren automatch. - (admin) - Aug. 25, 2003, 11:14:30 PM EDT

Are there still people who work without syntax coloring? - (drewk) - Aug. 26, 2003, 11:06:17 AM EDT

DON'T PANIC
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