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New Comments on supposed idiocy

Examples of idiocy:
[...]
cout << b << endl; // print's 0 - why not false? You can't change it either because ostream::operator<<(bool b) is defined as a member function of ostream.
At least it is consistent. For example ...

\n enum Color {RED, GREEN, BLUE};\n cout << GREEN << endl;           // Also prints 1
However, I will agree that the decision to print 0/1 for false/true is ... surprising.

Continuing ...
bool b = true; // fine
bool b = 5; cout << b << endl; // print's 1?!?!
That's right. Bool (despite your declarations to the contrary) is not a integer type.
b = false;
cout << b++ << ' ' << b++ << ' ' << b++ << ' ' << b++ << endl;

this print's 0 1 1 1

interestingly, b-- won't compile, operator is not permitted. So if you were going to use it as a use counter bool offers surprising behavior.
Yes. This a concession to backwards compatibilty with existing code. But you know this. No one is claiming this is the correct way to define bools in a green field language.
Bottom line - bool is a quirky POS that you don't really need if you just accept that you can do your conditional branching using any convenient integer type.
This seems an odd statement. Of course you don't need it. You don't need enums either. You don't need strings. There are a lot of things you don't need.

However, bool is a common abstraction. One that programmers often provide themselves. Unfortunately, it is not possible to provide a user defined bool type in C++ that has the following behavior ...
void f(int i) { cout << "Integer version called"; }\nvoid f(bool b) { cout << "Bool version called"; }\n\nint main(int argc, char** argv) {\n  f(argc == 0);   // Prints "Bool version called"\n}
Before bool was defined as a built in type, the integer version would have been called.
So don't try to tell me that this is a good idea. Its not. It's pretentiousness at its very worst.
Wow strong language. It seems to me, given the design constraints (backwards compatibility, desire to overload on bool) the choices were far from as bad as you paint it.
--
-- Jim Weirich jweirich@one.net [link|http://w3.one.net/~jweirich|http://w3.one.net/~jweirich]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,
not tried it." -- Donald Knuth (in a memo to Peter van Emde Boas)
New Re: Comments on supposed idiocy
It seems to me, given the design constraints (backwards compatibility, desire to overload on bool) the choices were far from as bad as you paint it.


I understand the design forces at work that lead to this mess. Incrementing a flag as a one way latch was a common idiom in a lot of older code.

What I really question is whether the increased complexity is worth it. I don't think it is. They had a choice between not having a bool and leaving the branching consitent with C, or adding a proper bool type and breaking a bunch of code.

The gutless wonderdogs did neither. This is my beef.

I dislike inconsistency and C++ has it in spades. The whole thing is a sign of muzzy headed thinking and committee dynamics.

Compare C++ to Objective C and the amateurishness of C++'s design shines like the top of the Chrysler Building.



"Packed like lemmings into shiny metal boxes.
Contestants in a suicidal race."
    - Synchronicity II - The Police
     The awakening begins - (tuberculosis) - (140)
         Quotes from Uncle Bob - (admin) - (12)
             Maybe it's just me... - (Simon_Jester) - (5)
                 Static languages make the code brittle ... - (bluke)
                 History revisionism - beware !!! (IMHO) - (dmarker) - (3)
                     Re: History revisionism - beware !!! (IMHO) - (JimWeirich) - (2)
                         Another issue was the potential popularity of a lang - (dmarker) - (1)
                             Re: Another issue was the potential popularity of a lang - (JimWeirich)
             Gee...I thought it was a friendly discussion... - (jb4) - (4)
                 Re: Gee...I thought it was a friendly discussion... - (JimWeirich) - (3)
                     Manifest typing....a la Fortran. - (Simon_Jester)
                     Thanks, Jim. Nicely put. -NT - (jb4) - (1)
                         Re: Ditto - Thanks, Jim. -NT - (dmarker)
             Next experiment: try it without OO -NT - (tablizer)
         Java going in the other direction - (bluke) - (109)
             Re: Java going in the other direction - (JimWeirich) - (34)
                 Smalltalk also - (bluke)
                 Speaking of autoboxing - (ChrisR) - (32)
                     gasp -NT - (deSitter) - (2)
                         This is what happens when the foundation sucks - (bluke) - (1)
                             Oh My! - (deSitter)
                     According to Joshua Bloch it hasn't been decided yet - (bluke) - (28)
                         This is just stupid - (tuberculosis) - (27)
                             I think you missed the point - (JimWeirich) - (5)
                                 OK, maybe so - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                                     Re: OK, maybe so - (JimWeirich) - (3)
                                         Well in this case - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                             Perhaps ... but ... - (JimWeirich) - (1)
                                                 My point was - (tuberculosis)
                             Not J-heads. - (admin) - (1)
                                 Smalltalk as usual is consistent - (bluke)
                             Set Theory - (deSitter) - (18)
                                 Re: Set Theory - (admin) - (12)
                                     Here we go - (deSitter) - (11)
                                         Re: Here we go - (admin) - (10)
                                             Amazing - (deSitter) - (9)
                                                 Re: Amazing - (admin) - (6)
                                                     Re: Amazing - (deSitter) - (5)
                                                         Wow. My first exposure to APL - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                             Same as in Objective C -NT - (admin)
                                                         Re: Amazing - (JimWeirich) - (2)
                                                             Heh. - (tseliot) - (1)
                                                                 ROFL -NT - (deSitter)
                                                 No - (Arkadiy)
                                                 Hey Ross, it's only a model. - (mmoffitt)
                                 Hey, watch this! - (drewk)
                                 Unlike DrooK, I'll bite: Ever heard of SQL, ya nitwit?!? -NT - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                     See comment above, applies here as well - (deSitter) - (2)
                                         Better stop talking to yourself then. - (admin)
                                         Your problem is the same you had a year (or was it two?) ago - (CRConrad)
             I remeber Pascal in the very same way - (jb4) - (72)
                 Just had this conversation - (tseliot) - (45)
                     Freep said the same thing - (tuberculosis) - (43)
                         Still waiting for ... - (jb4) - (42)
                             Depends on constraints - (tuberculosis) - (41)
                                 Platforms: - (jb4) - (40)
                                     Don't even get me started - (tuberculosis) - (30)
                                         I'll get you started, alright! - (jb4) - (29)
                                             No I'm not - (tuberculosis) - (28)
                                                 The problem is, you're trying to treat a bool as a number - (jb4) - (25)
                                                     No, I'm trying to branch on a condition - (tuberculosis) - (24)
                                                         21st Century Schitzoid Man - (jb4) - (23)
                                                             You are fighting the language - (tuberculosis) - (22)
                                                                 Tell you what... - (jb4)
                                                                 Can I put my oar in? - (static) - (20)
                                                                     Yeah sure - (tuberculosis) - (19)
                                                                         Such flowerly language toward such a misguided conclusion - (jb4) - (18)
                                                                             Yeah right - (tuberculosis) - (17)
                                                                                 (++true == false) - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                                                                     Just add a little gasoline, and stir!_____;-) - (jb4)
                                                                                 OK, Now I see wht your problem is - (jb4) - (5)
                                                                                     I thought you were going to give up on this - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                                                                                         How sensible is this?!? - (jb4) - (3)
                                                                                             Not convinced - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                                                                                 Nor am I - (jb4) - (1)
                                                                                                     You guys should be using Modula-2. :-P (new thread) - (Another Scott)
                                                                                 And an answer to your question. - (jb4) - (8)
                                                                                     Wrong answer - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                                                                                         Wrong answer back - (jb4)
                                                                                         They've turned it into Pascal - (deSitter) - (5)
                                                                                             Circular definition. - (CRConrad) - (4)
                                                                                                 Re: Circular definition. - (deSitter) - (3)
                                                                                                     Self-contradiction, and logically inconsistent definition. - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                                                                                         Can someone start a new thread please? -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                                                             What for, aren't the long ones the best? -NT - (CRConrad)
                                                 Comments on supposed idiocy - (JimWeirich) - (1)
                                                     Re: Comments on supposed idiocy - (tuberculosis)
                                     Don't even get me started - (tuberculosis)
                                     You didn't mention types of programs -NT - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                                         Sorry, thot I was clear earlier... - (jb4) - (6)
                                             Still doesn't tell me enough - (tuberculosis) - (5)
                                                 Re: Still doesn't tell me enough - (jb4) - (4)
                                                     The VM's are all written in very portable C - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                                         Re: The VM's are all written in very portable C - (deSitter) - (2)
                                                             Funny you should mention it - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                                                 Re: Funny you should mention it - (deSitter)
                     Minor modification - (jb4)
                 Just because *you* don't see it... - (pwhysall)
                 In fact.. - (deSitter) - (15)
                     Heh... - (jb4) - (14)
                         Re: Heh... - (deSitter) - (13)
                             BS - (admin) - (3)
                                 BS - (deSitter) - (2)
                                     When I see you spouting it, I'm going to call you on it. - (admin) - (1)
                                         Fair enough! -NT - (deSitter)
                             Do you have a clue why Linux is easily ported? - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                                 Re: Do you have a clue why Linux is easily ported? - (deSitter) - (7)
                                     No, that is not quite what you claimed - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                                         Well, to me -NT - (deSitter)
                                         Well, to me "moot" means.. - (deSitter) - (4)
                                             Why does your position appear to be shifting? - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                                 Modus operandi - (admin) - (1)
                                                     Re: Modus operandi - (deSitter)
                                                 Re: Why does your position appear to be shifting? - (deSitter)
                 Wasn't Pascal written as a teaching tool? - (drewk) - (8)
                     Yes - (bluke)
                     Re: Wasn't Pascal written as a teaching tool? - (JimWeirich) - (6)
                         Re: Wasn't Pascal written as a teaching tool? - (Yendor) - (4)
                             Forward Declarations - (JimWeirich) - (3)
                                 Hmm, was Turbo Pascal different about that? -NT - (drewk)
                                 Been too long - (Yendor)
                                 Nope, you're right. - (jb4)
                         Not when I learned it - (drewk)
             Same bandaid as C++ templates - (tuberculosis)
         Re: The awakening begins - (systems) - (16)
             A couple answers - (tuberculosis) - (12)
                 ICLRPD - (drewk)
                 Do I C another one...? - (CRConrad) - (10)
                     Aren't they like seals? - (tuberculosis) - (9)
                         Yes they are. - (admin)
                         No - they're "almost, but not entirely, unlike" seals. - (CRConrad) - (7)
                             NFC. -NT - (admin) - (1)
                                 Does the phrase "Splitting Hairs" come to mind. :-) -NT - (ChrisR)
                             birds are feathered and hairy - (boxley) - (4)
                                 It's all feathers. - (admin) - (3)
                                     Re: It's all feathers. - (deSitter) - (2)
                                         Re, "PS": Yeah, sure - so, whatchathink HAIRS are?!? -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                             Never really thought about it.. - (deSitter)
             Sometimes there aren't right answers - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                 Down with Determinants! :) -NT - (deSitter)
             Please indicate what you changed in an Edit. Thanks. :-) -NT - (Another Scott)

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