IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New A couple answers
The beef most dynamic language fans have with static typing is the loss in flexibility. It puts up all sorts of unnecessary walls and development often feels like an exercise in digging tunnels for no good reason.

These computer models of types just approximate the real world. The world isn't that well organized. You can take slices of things and they seem organized within the slice, but its only one perspective.

A typical example:

Birds can fly.
A penguin is a bird.
A penguin can fly.

An error caused by an overly general assumption early on. (Not all birds can fly - but most do).

This kind of error occurs in program development all the time. You make a simplifying assumption early on. You proceed based on that assumption. Eventually, some new information comes along that doesn't fit your original assumption.

Question - when your assumption is proven to be false, what do you do?

In a strong statically typed language, you have no choice, you must aggresively refactor you class hierarchy to account for these differences. Suddenly instead of abstract class Bird with operation fly(), you have to create FlyingAnimal, add each of the types of birds that can fly individually. And you've lost the birdness of them. You have gained the ability to add bats, flying fish, and flying squirrels.

You can say that you could solve this with multiple inheritance and divide the types into protocols or interfaces. Then you might have something like:

Penguin : <Bird, FurBearing, Swimmer, LandDweller, Diurnal>
Canary : <Bird, Feathered, Flying, TreeDweller, Diurnal>
Bat : <Mammal, FurBearing, Flying, CaveDweller, Nocturnal>

But this fine level of factoring maybe isn't necessary for your application to work (maybe its a zoo food distribution system).

I'd like to refer you to Bart Kosko's "Fuzzy Thinking" as an interesting (and not too technical) read. Fuzzy people's idea of set membership isn't binary, its a float - how strongly do you exhibit a certain membership? How Catholic are you? In my younger dating days I came to understand with girls that there's Catholic and Catholic. That's just life.

OK, so assuming we have a dynamically typed system and we make the same bad assumption. We don't have to refactor the entire type hierarchy to account for shifts in the way we look at things. We can implement the flying protocol on anything we like and simply remember to only hand flyers to things that expect things to fly.


a list in python can hold a combination of arbitary types
(I want to ask experienced programmers when is that useful)


Well, this is Smalltalk. But consider:

"a collection of stuff with nothing in common?"
stuff := OrderedCollection with: (Refrigerator new) with: (Sofa new) with: (Penguin new) with: (BowlingBall new) with: (Sandwich new).

truck := Truck withCapacity: 2000. "One ton truck"

weight := 0.
truck load: (stuff select: [:item |
((weight + (item weight)) < (truck capacity))
ifTrue: [weight := weight + item weight. true]
ifFalse: [false]]).

Apparently all that stuff has something in common after all.




"Packed like lemmings into shiny metal boxes.
Contestants in a suicidal race."
    - Synchronicity II - The Police
New ICLRPD
Fuzzy people's idea of set membership isn't binary, its a float - how strongly do you exhibit a certain membership? How Catholic are you? In my younger dating days I came to understand with girls that there's Catholic and Catholic. That's just life.
Or just:
In my younger dating days I came to understand with girls that there's Catholic and Catholic. That's just life.
===

Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
New Do I C another one...?
Penguin : <Bird, FurBearing, Swimmer, LandDweller, Diurnal>
Penguins are "FurBearing"?!?

Only in Todd's World! :-)


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New Aren't they like seals?
They aren't feathered.



"Packed like lemmings into shiny metal boxes.
Contestants in a suicidal race."
    - Synchronicity II - The Police
New Yes they are.
There are several species of penguins that have feathered crests. Other than that it's just skin and blubber. Seals have hair.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New No - they're "almost, but not entirely, unlike" seals.
Toddsko:
They aren't feathered.
Who aren't - the seals? No, that's right.

Penguins, OTOH, being birds, frigging well ARE feathered. (And not just the crests, either; where the heck didya get *that* from, Scott?)

I mean, just look at the blurbs ON THIS SEARCH PAGE ITSELF: [link|http://www.google.com/search?q=penguins+feathers+fur|http://www.google.com/search?q=penguins+feathers+fur] !

Sheesh...


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New NFC.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Does the phrase "Splitting Hairs" come to mind. :-)
New birds are feathered and hairy
anyone who has spent time plucking ducks and geese know that
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

Carpe Dieu
New It's all feathers.
The stuff underneath is a type of feather that only develops wisps, instead of wisps and barbed interlocking spines.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Re: It's all feathers.
Could be Conrad is a feather expert. Anki says, "Chrissy, put on the Indian outfit!"

(PS: Aren't feathers just morphed scales anyway?)
-drl
New Re, "PS": Yeah, sure - so, whatchathink HAIRS are?!?
New Never really thought about it..
..but these guys have!

[link|http://www.cmnh.org/dinoarch/1998Jul/msg00323.html|http://www.cmnh.org/...Jul/msg00323.html]
-drl
     The awakening begins - (tuberculosis) - (140)
         Quotes from Uncle Bob - (admin) - (12)
             Maybe it's just me... - (Simon_Jester) - (5)
                 Static languages make the code brittle ... - (bluke)
                 History revisionism - beware !!! (IMHO) - (dmarker) - (3)
                     Re: History revisionism - beware !!! (IMHO) - (JimWeirich) - (2)
                         Another issue was the potential popularity of a lang - (dmarker) - (1)
                             Re: Another issue was the potential popularity of a lang - (JimWeirich)
             Gee...I thought it was a friendly discussion... - (jb4) - (4)
                 Re: Gee...I thought it was a friendly discussion... - (JimWeirich) - (3)
                     Manifest typing....a la Fortran. - (Simon_Jester)
                     Thanks, Jim. Nicely put. -NT - (jb4) - (1)
                         Re: Ditto - Thanks, Jim. -NT - (dmarker)
             Next experiment: try it without OO -NT - (tablizer)
         Java going in the other direction - (bluke) - (109)
             Re: Java going in the other direction - (JimWeirich) - (34)
                 Smalltalk also - (bluke)
                 Speaking of autoboxing - (ChrisR) - (32)
                     gasp -NT - (deSitter) - (2)
                         This is what happens when the foundation sucks - (bluke) - (1)
                             Oh My! - (deSitter)
                     According to Joshua Bloch it hasn't been decided yet - (bluke) - (28)
                         This is just stupid - (tuberculosis) - (27)
                             I think you missed the point - (JimWeirich) - (5)
                                 OK, maybe so - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                                     Re: OK, maybe so - (JimWeirich) - (3)
                                         Well in this case - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                             Perhaps ... but ... - (JimWeirich) - (1)
                                                 My point was - (tuberculosis)
                             Not J-heads. - (admin) - (1)
                                 Smalltalk as usual is consistent - (bluke)
                             Set Theory - (deSitter) - (18)
                                 Re: Set Theory - (admin) - (12)
                                     Here we go - (deSitter) - (11)
                                         Re: Here we go - (admin) - (10)
                                             Amazing - (deSitter) - (9)
                                                 Re: Amazing - (admin) - (6)
                                                     Re: Amazing - (deSitter) - (5)
                                                         Wow. My first exposure to APL - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                             Same as in Objective C -NT - (admin)
                                                         Re: Amazing - (JimWeirich) - (2)
                                                             Heh. - (tseliot) - (1)
                                                                 ROFL -NT - (deSitter)
                                                 No - (Arkadiy)
                                                 Hey Ross, it's only a model. - (mmoffitt)
                                 Hey, watch this! - (drewk)
                                 Unlike DrooK, I'll bite: Ever heard of SQL, ya nitwit?!? -NT - (CRConrad) - (3)
                                     See comment above, applies here as well - (deSitter) - (2)
                                         Better stop talking to yourself then. - (admin)
                                         Your problem is the same you had a year (or was it two?) ago - (CRConrad)
             I remeber Pascal in the very same way - (jb4) - (72)
                 Just had this conversation - (tseliot) - (45)
                     Freep said the same thing - (tuberculosis) - (43)
                         Still waiting for ... - (jb4) - (42)
                             Depends on constraints - (tuberculosis) - (41)
                                 Platforms: - (jb4) - (40)
                                     Don't even get me started - (tuberculosis) - (30)
                                         I'll get you started, alright! - (jb4) - (29)
                                             No I'm not - (tuberculosis) - (28)
                                                 The problem is, you're trying to treat a bool as a number - (jb4) - (25)
                                                     No, I'm trying to branch on a condition - (tuberculosis) - (24)
                                                         21st Century Schitzoid Man - (jb4) - (23)
                                                             You are fighting the language - (tuberculosis) - (22)
                                                                 Tell you what... - (jb4)
                                                                 Can I put my oar in? - (static) - (20)
                                                                     Yeah sure - (tuberculosis) - (19)
                                                                         Such flowerly language toward such a misguided conclusion - (jb4) - (18)
                                                                             Yeah right - (tuberculosis) - (17)
                                                                                 (++true == false) - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                                                                     Just add a little gasoline, and stir!_____;-) - (jb4)
                                                                                 OK, Now I see wht your problem is - (jb4) - (5)
                                                                                     I thought you were going to give up on this - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                                                                                         How sensible is this?!? - (jb4) - (3)
                                                                                             Not convinced - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                                                                                 Nor am I - (jb4) - (1)
                                                                                                     You guys should be using Modula-2. :-P (new thread) - (Another Scott)
                                                                                 And an answer to your question. - (jb4) - (8)
                                                                                     Wrong answer - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                                                                                         Wrong answer back - (jb4)
                                                                                         They've turned it into Pascal - (deSitter) - (5)
                                                                                             Circular definition. - (CRConrad) - (4)
                                                                                                 Re: Circular definition. - (deSitter) - (3)
                                                                                                     Self-contradiction, and logically inconsistent definition. - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                                                                                         Can someone start a new thread please? -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                                                             What for, aren't the long ones the best? -NT - (CRConrad)
                                                 Comments on supposed idiocy - (JimWeirich) - (1)
                                                     Re: Comments on supposed idiocy - (tuberculosis)
                                     Don't even get me started - (tuberculosis)
                                     You didn't mention types of programs -NT - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                                         Sorry, thot I was clear earlier... - (jb4) - (6)
                                             Still doesn't tell me enough - (tuberculosis) - (5)
                                                 Re: Still doesn't tell me enough - (jb4) - (4)
                                                     The VM's are all written in very portable C - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                                         Re: The VM's are all written in very portable C - (deSitter) - (2)
                                                             Funny you should mention it - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                                                 Re: Funny you should mention it - (deSitter)
                     Minor modification - (jb4)
                 Just because *you* don't see it... - (pwhysall)
                 In fact.. - (deSitter) - (15)
                     Heh... - (jb4) - (14)
                         Re: Heh... - (deSitter) - (13)
                             BS - (admin) - (3)
                                 BS - (deSitter) - (2)
                                     When I see you spouting it, I'm going to call you on it. - (admin) - (1)
                                         Fair enough! -NT - (deSitter)
                             Do you have a clue why Linux is easily ported? - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                                 Re: Do you have a clue why Linux is easily ported? - (deSitter) - (7)
                                     No, that is not quite what you claimed - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                                         Well, to me -NT - (deSitter)
                                         Well, to me "moot" means.. - (deSitter) - (4)
                                             Why does your position appear to be shifting? - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                                 Modus operandi - (admin) - (1)
                                                     Re: Modus operandi - (deSitter)
                                                 Re: Why does your position appear to be shifting? - (deSitter)
                 Wasn't Pascal written as a teaching tool? - (drewk) - (8)
                     Yes - (bluke)
                     Re: Wasn't Pascal written as a teaching tool? - (JimWeirich) - (6)
                         Re: Wasn't Pascal written as a teaching tool? - (Yendor) - (4)
                             Forward Declarations - (JimWeirich) - (3)
                                 Hmm, was Turbo Pascal different about that? -NT - (drewk)
                                 Been too long - (Yendor)
                                 Nope, you're right. - (jb4)
                         Not when I learned it - (drewk)
             Same bandaid as C++ templates - (tuberculosis)
         Re: The awakening begins - (systems) - (16)
             A couple answers - (tuberculosis) - (12)
                 ICLRPD - (drewk)
                 Do I C another one...? - (CRConrad) - (10)
                     Aren't they like seals? - (tuberculosis) - (9)
                         Yes they are. - (admin)
                         No - they're "almost, but not entirely, unlike" seals. - (CRConrad) - (7)
                             NFC. -NT - (admin) - (1)
                                 Does the phrase "Splitting Hairs" come to mind. :-) -NT - (ChrisR)
                             birds are feathered and hairy - (boxley) - (4)
                                 It's all feathers. - (admin) - (3)
                                     Re: It's all feathers. - (deSitter) - (2)
                                         Re, "PS": Yeah, sure - so, whatchathink HAIRS are?!? -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                             Never really thought about it.. - (deSitter)
             Sometimes there aren't right answers - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                 Down with Determinants! :) -NT - (deSitter)
             Please indicate what you changed in an Edit. Thanks. :-) -NT - (Another Scott)

Duuuude...?
141 ms