Post #97,890
4/22/03 12:25:23 PM
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Think Nixon, Gold Standard Abandonment, OPEC Crisis of '73
It's not a far-fetched thing.
Of course, if the dollar came home, the assholes at the helm would have to hire Americans to do American jobs. So let's hope it happens. The current direction is straight to catastrophe.
-drl
Light is heavy:
R{} = (2R/W)T - (1/2W){D-2,D-2}W
Heavy is light:
(D-3)(RF[] + 5/4 g) = 0
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Post #97,907
4/22/03 2:12:16 PM
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Re: Think Nixon, Gold Standard Abandonment, OPEC Crisis of '
That also crossed my mind. Won't make much difference though: if the Europeans get their panties in a bunch and run home crying, there are plenty of other countries willing to accept dollars and employment from America.
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Post #97,909
4/22/03 2:31:55 PM
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The cheerleader syndrome.
Why don't you just keep shouting "We're number one" and be done with it? It would be just as insightful and thought provoking as what you normally post.
The world is only a simple place to the simple.
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Post #98,176
4/23/03 10:39:41 AM
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We're number *zero!*
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Post #97,910
4/22/03 2:33:59 PM
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This just in
A truly integrated EU economy would be more powerful than ours. US actions under the junta will very likely serve to accelerate that integration--and set EU policies and interests at cross purposes to our nominal own.
cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
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Post #98,196
4/23/03 11:02:06 AM
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LMAO...
United Europe? You do realise what a historical contradiction this whole premise rest upon, do you not? The author's been smoking crack. Anyone that puts any credence on this premise must be smoking crack as well.
My $.02
Just a few thoughts,
Screamer
Living is easy with eyes closed
misunderstanding all you see,
it's getting hard to be someone but it all works out
it doesn't matter much to me
J. Lennon - Strawberry Fields Forever
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Post #98,251
4/23/03 1:21:01 PM
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Re: LMAO...
We're not speaking here of a United Europe, precisely, but of a Europe of integrated economies, acting in concert economically in response to a perceived threat. But it seems to me that the costs of integration are merely a new representation of the paradox of sovereignty. Small states or unaffiliated tribes have, throughout history, found that the only way to prevent themselves from being overrun by foreign powers was to surrender their autonomy and unite to fight their common enemy. To defend our sovereignty - and that of the rest of the world - from the US, we must yield some of our sovereignty to Europe.
That we have a moral duty to contest the developing power of the US is surely evident. That we can contest it by no other means is equally obvious. Whether Monbiot's strategy could work either on the European end or on the US end I do not know. What I do find enlightening are the many signs all over the world that people and governments hitherto disposed to cut this country some slack are waking up to the fact that they've got a rogue elephant in their midst, and are beginning to discuss whether it's dangerous enough to warrant a collective effort to take it down, and if so, by what means. We've got brute intimidation working for us now (I've read that next year's proposed Pentagon budget, if approved, will amount to more than the total military expenditures of all the other countries in the world), so no one's likely to take us on mano-a-mano, but as Monbiot has observed, our colossus stands on a rather brittle plinth. That the United States of America should be the pre-eminent power in the world, not to be bound by treaties or international institutions, unfettered in its actions, is a proposition that appears self-evident to a certain mindset on these shores, but it's less persuasive from abroad. That we needn't worry about the opinions of the rest of the world is also an attractive notion to some (and isn't it interesting that we see the beginnings of a propaganda campaign, with our beloved former House Speaker in the van, against the State Department?), but the day may come when it feels very cold and lonely indeed at the top. cordially, "Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
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Post #98,257
4/23/03 1:34:18 PM
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At issue...
...is the ability of Europe to actually accomplish the economic integration that they have been >trying< to to for more than a decade.
The UK declined to participate and the principle members are >afraid< to extend the union to the countries that hav eweaker economies. Portugal, Turkey, the former East Block.
It is a great ideal. They've, so far, failed miserably to pull it off. Further attempts to do so with the specific agenda of combatting US might may end up driving the UK into closer alliance with the US which would keep the scale slightly in our favor.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #98,464
4/24/03 4:17:11 AM
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Well.. maybe the latter. For a time.
But when Rogue State becomes as familiar a term in everyday bar talk as.. football - we may well discover just how rapidly previous 'diplomatic obstacles' can vanish.
Nothing succeeds like an Ogre to combat. And GW Bush appears to have already attracted a certain resemblance to the chimerical.. (nothing to do with charisma, BTW) in the eyes of more people [?] than the population of the US. There's the Symbol to rally 'round. Every time he opens his mouth in Texan threat-speak, the caricature fleshes-in a bit more.
But, keep smiling.. it may all work out. Meanwhile: send pretzels and Hope.
Ashton
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Post #98,473
4/24/03 8:43:18 AM
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Re: At issue...
More brilliant BushReich diplomacy: The Bush administration is pursuing steps to punish France for opposing the United States on the war in Iraq, including the possibility of limiting French participation in American-sponsored meetings with European allies, senior officials said today.
The measures were discussed at a White House meeting on Monday of senior officials led by Stephen J. Hadley, the deputy national security adviser. Marc Grossman, the under secretary of state for political affairs, also attended, as did I. Lewis Libby and Eric Edelman, two influential hawks on the staff of Vice President Dick Cheney. Mr. Libby and Mr. Edelman were described by some administration officials as driving forces within the group.
The anger at France is so deeply felt within the administration that even Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, in an interview on Tuesday, warned that the country would be punished for taking on the United States. Asked on "The Charlie Rose Show" on PBS if France would suffer consequences, Mr. Powell bluntly replied, "Yes."
...
The White House's confrontational strategy, administration officials said, is intended to try to bludgeon France into more acquiescent behavior, or at least to make it clear that the Bush administration will now only cooperate with France when it is in the interest of the United States. [link|http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/24/international/worldspecial/24FRAN.html|http://www.nytimes.c...ecial/24FRAN.html] As von Rumsfeld is fond of saying, quoting Al Capone, "You can get more with a kind word and a gun [bludgeon?] than you can with a kind word alone." Perhaps he and the rest of the cabal in power might do well to ponder more of Capone's career: he was brought down, at the end, via finance. The euro ploy just might work. And if the junta continues spreading fear and enmity around at the present rate, these ingredients could provide a handy catalyst for the European integration of which bp is so sceptical. A majority of the world's people are, at the least, suspicious of this country's motives. With every passing day this administration is suffered to remain encysted, more of them move from suspicion to outright hatred and fear. There will be consequences. cordially, "Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
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Post #98,476
4/24/03 8:52:07 AM
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William Safire, of course, sez it's all
France's fault. Find the URL for this drivel yourself, if you like, but the last line is hilarious: in their hubristic drive for dominance in Europe, combined with their grubby grab for contracts, Chirac and his poodle Putin have severely damaged the United Nations. Good thing the UN has us to look after it, eh? cordially, "Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
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Post #98,499
4/24/03 10:45:30 AM
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Re: At issue...
The euro ploy just might work. And if the junta continues spreading fear and enmity around at the present rate, these ingredients could provide a handy catalyst for the European integration of which bp is so sceptical. Its not just me that is [link|http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1739389.stm|skeptical]. The most appropriate section: In the long-term, however, the eurozone's prospects for growth are likely to be limited by "significant structural problems", says Mr Lind.
In particular, inflexible labour markets - which make it more expensive to employ and lay off people - have hampered production of goods.
In recent years, much production has shifted outside the eurozone from Germany to the Czech Republic and Hungary, where it is cheaper to employ workers, says the OEF's Mr Church. Minor things like common language, citizenship issues still hamper the union. Just moving to Euro currency (a full decade after it was >supposed< to happen) is not enough to threaten the US economy. As the article that was above referenced indicated, currency markets are extremely liquid...shifting currecny from Euro to dollar and back is instantaneous and has little effect..and >if< the switch to Euro raises its value versus the dollar...that is a net >good< for our economy. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #98,536
4/24/03 1:12:33 PM
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Many points of agreement
My initial response (or sarcastic LMAO) was in regards to the notion of Europe ever "uniting", even economically for the greater good. As the last three paragraphs of Monbiot's article clearly states, that Great Britain isn't a part of Europe yet. Here's one paragraph that I find extemely entertaining... The global justice movement, of which I consider myself a member, has, by and large, opposed accession to the euro, arguing that it accelerates the concentration of economic and political power, reduces people's ability to influence monetary policy and threatens employment in the poorest nations and regions. Much of the movement will have drawn comfort from the new opinion polls suggesting that almost 70% of British voters now oppose the single currency, and from the hints dropped by the Treasury last week that British accession may be delayed until 2010. From a historical perspective, the only time that Europe has been "united" is the brief periods after conquest (ie Charlemagne, Napoleon, Hitler, etc) Perhaps he is defining a unified Europe as the former Roman Empire plus the former Holy Roman Empire plus Scandivia? For a cartel to work (must I?) there must be a great degree of trust between the cartel members (I'm laughing as I type this)... ah, nevermind... I think you see my point. I can't help it, I just find it humorous. That said, what other countries can "do" about the American "problem" is to stop themselves from being bought out (lock, stock and barrel) by American landlords (major corporations). American empirialism is economic, not military. The Europeans (British not included) are only now waking up to this. It is interesting that the loudest opponents of American empirialism are countries such as Great Britain, France, Russia, etc. Former empiricist who no longer are in control. IMHO, at least part of this "anger" can be attributed to sour grapes. YMMV. We (the US) need to find a way to keep our "capitalist pigs" in line. We need to oversee who "we" do business with, even if it means pain and suffering for America. Of course, if we elect politicians who cause us pain, we will reward them by electing others who won't. If we actually refused protection for pigs doing bness in Saudi Arabia for example, a place where women are still treated as cattle, then perhaps we could have the moral high ground to insist that they change. And of course, we would have to trust that Saudi Arabia's other "trading partners" (such as France, Great Britain, Russia, etc) would do the same for it to be effective... Oh shoot, now I'm getting depressed. Just a few thoughts,
Screamer
All that foreign oil controlling American soil,
Look around you, it's just bound to make you embarrassed.
Sheiks walkin' around like kings, wearing fancy jewels and nose rings,
Deciding America's future from Amsterdam and to Paris
And there's a slow, slow train comin' up around the bend.
Bob Dylan - Slow Train Coming
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