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New Re: Lets state it simply.
I am not totally happy with the government we have. I would, however, take this one over any other one in existance today

Is this a conclusion you have arrived at after sedulous study of all other extant governments and analysis of their failings and virtues vis-a-vis our own, or do you just, like, kinda know that Ours Is Best, just like they've been telling you since you got your milkteeth? --And speaking of that, since the notion that they've got the Bestest and Most Wunnerful Society in the Whole World is one you'll find in many another land, and since, because there can be only one B&MWS in the WW, the rest are obviously lying or deluded--why, isn't it splendid that you live in the One True B&MWSitWW, God's favorite nation-state hands down, the only place where trusting schoolchildren can be told Ours is Best with a straight face?

Hey, I live here, and it's a pretty comfortable gig--I know the language and enough of the customs to get by (actually, now I think of it, I feel a far sharper sense of regional loyalty--to the Pacific Coast, specifically--than I do to the larger geographical and institutional entity of the One True B&MWSitWW)--but just because the country's fitful progress toward authoritarian dystopia throughout my life has been on the desultory side for much of that period doesn't mean I don't wake up and smell the Zyklon-B when a regime that took power by thuggery and fraud starts looking to put that progress on a systematic basis. You keep returning to your rather touching faith in the supposed homeostasis of the system: "The massive violation of civil liberties post Dec 7 were eliminated. Why would we have any reason to believe this any different a moment in our history?" Wrong question, really--most of us wonder what possesses you to imagine that the two moments are significantly similar beyond the single element of a surprise attack on two very different societies.

Actually, I'd be well content if, remembering this exchange in a decade's time, I concluded that I'd been mistaken in my concerns. But at this moment in our history I am persuaded that the institutions and traditions in which you place so much faith are far less robust than you suppose, and that the United States of America could very easily be transformed in the blink of an eye, historically speaking (one more rearrangement of a major metropolitan skyline would do the trick, I'd judge, and just because this lot doesn't fire its own Reichstags doesn't mean they wouldn't run with the opportunity), as radically as its old nemesis the USSR--which, as you may remember, looked for most of the postwar period to be a permanent part of the landscape. People have been reaching back to the Nazis by way of comparison not because they believe the Bush junta will slavishly follow the Feuhrer's playbook, but because they serve as one recent example of how a democracy is infected, subverted and overwhelmed by a cabal. That the trappings of the putsch may not be Bavarian, that the spinmeistering is infinitely more sophisticated, is cold comfort to a clear eye.

cordially,

[edit:typo]
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
Expand Edited by rcareaga April 17, 2003, 02:26:25 PM EDT
New What is it with this crew?
I've a Masters in International Business and have lived in over a half dozen and studied vastly more of the governments on this planet.

I just know ours is best :-/

I've lived with National ID cards. Police armed with automatic weapons. Free nationalized healthcare (and a deviated septum to show that you do..in fact...get what you pay for) etc...

This country is not perfect. Perfect does not exist. There are countries that handle certain aspects of the entire package >better< than we do. But when you put the entire package together, this is the place to be.

And I suppose...if Greg's server holds out for the decade...that I would relish the opportunity and freedom to discuss this with you and disagree with you all over again :) Just like I do now.

And I would love to be so optimistic about the motives of others in search of a comparison point...I'm just not.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New well having batted about from souk to shantytown
from cribs to mansions on all continents I choose this country. Now if I was in like flynn with the ruling class of certain regimes around I might like them better but for an average Joe with no pull the USofA offers the most freedom I am likely to get, and it is a dam small portion of what I require. I love the deep south, the mountains and Grass Valley in CA. Nevada is sweet and so is Miami during the daylight with heavy shades on and the car doors locked. The Bronx is interesting and Pine Ridge Rez is way cool. Alaska of course is tops but so is Florida in its own way. Love the whole dam thing I guess and have for most of my adult life. Just have to keep howling at the injustice offered by all segments of this society.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]

Carpe Dieu
New No real estate complaints - we got it really cheap, at first
     Hey Beep, you'll hate this. - (mmoffitt) - (44)
         More power to them. - (bepatient) - (43)
             I know, "just wait..." - (mmoffitt) - (42)
                 So... - (bepatient) - (41)
                     Re: So... - (rcareaga) - (40)
                         I do pay attention. - (bepatient) - (39)
                             Huge difference - (jbrabeck) - (1)
                                 Understood - (bepatient)
                             Re: I do pay attention. - (rcareaga) - (36)
                                 and 46 years later... - (bepatient) - (35)
                                     Re: and 46 years later... - (rcareaga) - (5)
                                         My bad...math skills decline when hurrying... - (bepatient) - (4)
                                             and the nation behaves... - (rcareaga) - (3)
                                                 yes another believing that communism is taking over America! - (boxley) - (1)
                                                     Do not wake the youngish.. Zzzzzz___all in good time. -NT - (Ashton)
                                                 No I don't take them for granted. - (bepatient)
                                     Your point is clear & reasonable - (dmarker) - (2)
                                         And again... - (bepatient)
                                         eh? auto de fe was a brit term? - (boxley)
                                     Ah well then, I see the level which must be reached before.. - (Ashton) - (25)
                                         Patience is indeed indicated. Don't sneeze. - (rcareaga) - (1)
                                             Axis of Glee LLC, Discorporate Div. - (Ashton)
                                         Ah yes.... - (bepatient) - (22)
                                             You missed one thing Beep - (Silverlock) - (21)
                                                 Nope... - (bepatient) - (20)
                                                     I don't get you - (Silverlock) - (19)
                                                         Lets state it simply. - (bepatient) - (15)
                                                             Again with the ridicule - (Silverlock)
                                                             Hostile? - (bepatient)
                                                             Re: Lets state it simply. - (rcareaga) - (3)
                                                                 What is it with this crew? - (bepatient)
                                                                 well having batted about from souk to shantytown - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                     No real estate complaints - we got it really cheap, at first -NT - (Ashton)
                                                             Your projection may, of course prove correct. - (Ashton)
                                                             You said that twice, and I just don't smoke that much crack. - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                 Maybe you should start then. - (bepatient) - (6)
                                                                     Maybe you should learn to read then. - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                                         My German expatriot is better than yours, nyah. -NT - (admin) - (4)
                                                                             No, mine's better. Yours worked in the camps. ;-p -NT - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                                                 Whatever you say, my friend. - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                                     The price is vigilence. - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                     Nobody ever expects___THE SPANISH INQUISITION__[!] -NT - (Ashton)
                                                         We sit in a boat in New York harbor. - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                                             Cute - (Silverlock) - (1)
                                                                 Could you pick a more realistic destination, then? -NT - (Arkadiy)

Considered an odd number by mathematicians around the world.
76 ms