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New Re: You ought to reread the thread
Todd wrote:

Because it was a reasonable exchange until:

"Welcome to open-source, kiddo"

And from this point on you acted like a condescending dickhead.

Well, chum (and you may take that in any sense you wish, including in particular the shark kind), the truth is that I have seldom seen such a ripe candidate for condescension. Whining about version numbers below 1.0? Yeah, indeed, that's indeed part of the proprietary-software addict's mindset, along with complaining that other people's software that you don't choose to use is clearly unacceptable because, unlike the polished examples of perfection you favour, it has bug reports (eek!), doesn't have the right lipgloss applied to it by the Church of Steve, isn't vetted by the Human Interface Guidelines fashion police, and hasn't been marketed to you with adequate numbers of testimonials.

Like OS X should be configured with mixed UFS and HFS files systems.

Clue: I've been using mixed UFS/HFS+ systems since the early OS X Server betas. It's really simple: Following the pattern with the rest of Unix, if you tell the system to do something really stupid that will discard a file extent, it will gladly comply. As the old joke goes: "So Don't Do That, Then."

You claim that you can't understand what "doing something really stupid" means in this context unless I can show you a manpage. My first reaction is incredulity: I'm supposed to believe you're a MacOS developer who honestly doesn't understand basic file semantics? My second reaction is pity: You honestly think manpages are tutorial materials?

But then I realise that "honestly" is more likely not in this picture at all, and remember your attempt to hustle everyone with that "all software is proprietary" shuck and jive. I.e., the natural inferences is that you're trying to invent an issue about manpages as tutorials because you think nobody's bright enough to spot a whopper like that.

Now, you happen to prefer your systems built 100% on the crappier of those two filesystems just so more of your scissors are rounded and your little bike has training wheels. Good for you. But telling those of us who do know the basics of file semantics that we're "irresponsible" is both pathetic and fscking rude. And I don't fscking care what your software church preaches to you.

Or that code should be trusted to beta quality version control systems.

And this reminds me of one of the subtler reasons why many open-source projects deliberately keep their version numbers pre-1.0 for extended periods of time: It reduces the idiot quotient among the userbase, by driving away those who won't use the code without an adequate marketing dance.

I'll bet even you can find the Subversion Project's criteria for a 1.0 release, by the way. It's on the front page of their Web site. And the list of nine release-critical bugs is two links from there. See if you can find that, too.

Or not. Just to be crystal-clear on this point: I don't give a tinker's damn what software you use and don't use, and would merely prefer that you work out your personal problems far from me. That's highly unlikely to ever change, but don't call me; I'll call you.

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com


If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
Collapse Edited by rickmoen Jan. 24, 2003, 01:19:38 PM EST
Re: You ought to reread the thread
Todd wrote:

Because it was a reasonable exchange until:

"Welcome to open-source, kiddo"

And from this point on you acted like a condescending dickhead.

Well, chum (and you may take that in any sense you wish, including in particular the shark kind), the truth is that I have seldom seen such a ripe candidate for condescension. Whining about version numbers below 1.0? Yeah, indeed, that's indeed part of the proprietary-software addict's mindset, along with complaining that other people's software that you don't choose to use is clearly unacceptable because, unlike the polished examples of perfection you favour, it has bug reports (eek!), doesn't have the right lipgloss applied to it by the Church of Steve, isn't vetted by the Human Interface Guidelines fashion police, and hasn't been marketed to you with adequate numbers of testimonials.

Like OS X should be configured with mixed UFS and HFS files systems.

Clue: I've been using mixed UFS/HFS+ systems since the early OS X Server betas. It's really simple: Following the pattern with the rest of Unix, if you tell the system to do something really stupid that will discard a file extent, it will gladly comply. As the old joke goes: "So Don't Do That, Then."

You claim that you can't understand what "doing something really stupid" means in this context unless I can show you a manpage. My first reaction is incredulity: I'm supposed to believe you're a MacOS developer who honestly doesn't understand basic file semantics? My second reaction is pity: You honestly think manpages are tutorial materials?

But then I realise that "honestly" is more likely not in this picture at all, and remember your attempt to hustle everyone with that "all software is proprietary" shuck and jive. I.e., the natural inferences is that you're trying to invent an issue about manpages as tutorials because you think nobody's bright enough to spot a whopper like that.

Now, you happen to prefer your systems built 100% on the crappier of those two filesystems just so more of your scissors are rounded and your little bike has training wheels. Good for you. But telling those of us who do know the basics of file semantics that we're "irresponsible" both pathetic and fscking rude. And I don't fscking care what your software church preaches to you.

Or that code should be trusted to beta quality version control systems.

And this reminds me of one of the subtler reasons why many open-source projects deliberately keep their version numbers pre-1.0 for extended periods of time: It reduces the idiot quotient among the userbase, by driving away those who won't use the code without an adequate marketing dance.

I'll bet even you can find the Subversion Project's criteria for a 1.0 release, by the way. It's on the front page of their Web site. And the list of nine release-critical bugs is two links from there. See if you can find that, too.

Or not. Just to be crystal-clear on this point: I don't give a tinker's damn what software you use and don't use, and would merely prefer that you work out your personal problems far from me. That's highly unlikely to ever change, but don't call me; I'll call you.

Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com


If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
New Your post is off topic and should have been moved to... (new thread)
Created as new thread #76741 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=76741|Your post is off topic and should have been moved to...]



I think that it's extraordinarily important that we in computer science keep fun in computing. When it started out, it was an awful lot of fun. Of course, the paying customer got shafted every now and then, and after a while we began to take their complaints seriously. We began to feel as if we really were responsible for the successful, error-free perfect use of these machines. I don't think we are. I think we're responsible for stretching them, setting them off in new directions, and keeping fun in the house. I hope the field of computer science never loses its sense of fun. Above all, I hope we don't become missionaries. Don't feel as if you're Bible salesmen. The world has too many of those already. What you know about computing other people will learn. Don't feel as if the key to successful computing is only in your hands. What's in your hands, I think and hope, is intelligence: the ability to see the machine as more than when you were first led up to it, that you can make it more.

--Alan Perlis
     Major CVS security hole - (admin) - (35)
         Red Hat (at least RH8.0) had CVS fix yesterday. -NT - (a6l6e6x)
         Now who has the job of crawling thru the codebase? - (boxley) - (25)
             Re: Now who has the job of crawling thru the codebase? - (rickmoen) - (24)
                 Subversion is not ready yet - (tuberculosis) - (23)
                     Suffer with CVS as long as you like - (rickmoen) - (22)
                         You mean need - (tuberculosis) - (17)
                             Re: You mean need - (rickmoen) - (16)
                                 Re: You mean need - (tuberculosis) - (14)
                                     Re: You mean need - (rickmoen) - (13)
                                         ObMyDickIsBiggerThanYours -NT - (Yendor) - (12)
                                             Re: ObMyDickIsBiggerThanYours - (rickmoen) - (11)
                                                 What would I do? - (Yendor) - (6)
                                                     no its not its Zlife :-) -NT - (boxley)
                                                     Re: What would I do? - (rickmoen) - (4)
                                                         Difference of opinion == intellectual dishonesty? - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                                             Wow better than hockey -NT - (deSitter) - (2)
                                                                 I went to the fights the other night... - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                                                     ROFL! -NT - (Silverlock)
                                                 You ought to reread the thread - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                                     lrpadism of the year nominee - (drewk)
                                                     Re: You ought to reread the thread - (rickmoen) - (1)
                                                         Your post is off topic and should have been moved to... (new thread) - (tuberculosis)
                                 Re: You mean need - (deSitter)
                         I would not touch arch with a 10' pole - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                             Re: I would not touch arch with a 10' pole - (rickmoen)
                             Mr. Bad fan club - (rickmoen) - (1)
                                 Why doesn't this surprise me? :-/ -NT - (ben_tilly)
         It's official: UNIX sucks just like Windows - (deSitter) - (7)
             "Trowelled". -NT - (pwhysall) - (2)
                 Allowed - (deSitter) - (1)
                     Yes... but... - (folkert)
             Its the services - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                 Have to disagree - (deSitter) - (1)
                     Uh... yep... - (folkert)
             OK, get on that and get back to us. -NT - (tseliot)

The feeling is there, but you have a long way to go to CRC's level.
108 ms