And you can bet SUN had help in hurting Java.

Post #70,683 by mmoffitt 12/24/02 12:00:38 PM Reply	And you can bet SUN had help in hurting Java. Way back before M$ "licensed" Java from SUN I was told directly by an M$ employee that M$ was on a mission to kill Java. I'd brought down a SUN book on Java 1.0 and when he saw it he said, "What's that?" I said, "It's a Java book." He looked at it, chuckled and said, "We're going to kill Java." I replied, "Why?" He, "Java has the potential for commoditizing the OS. We can't have that." I do feel sorry for those fsckers who embraced Visual J++ though. But not very.
Post #70,688 by jb4 12/24/02 1:10:21 PM Reply	No' me... I do feel sorry for those fsckers who embraced Visual J++ though. But not very. Not me...not at all! Serves them fucking right! Anybody who embraces a Micros~1 propriatery "language" deserves what they get..and that goes for their latest red-headed bastard C-pigpen! </rant ;-)> jb4 "They lead. They don't manage. The carrot always wins over the stick. Ask your horse. You can lead your horse to water, but you can't manage him to drink." Richard Kerr, United Technologies Corporation, 1990
Post #70,695 by tuberculosis 12/24/02 2:04:16 PM Reply	They didn't need any help From the beginning, Sun has only worked on making it work on Windows and Solaris. Other versions were released but the mac version was so laughably lame as to be completely unusable. Swing remains laughably lame. Rather than work on the core and make it good, Sun has been busy trying to take over the world with no less avarice than MS. While they like to characterize themselves as the good guys, I believe they ought to change their motto to "Sun, the other Microsoft". I am out of the country for the duration of the Bush administration. Please leave a message and I'll get back to you when democracy returns.
Post #70,712 by mmoffitt 12/24/02 4:36:46 PM Reply	They could have pulled it off, imo. If they'd been a little less greedy up front. Which MS memo/email/whatever was it that Balmer sent to Gates that ran something like, Balmer: It' amazing no one has made a serious run at us with Unix. Gates: It's too late.
Post #71,390 by dmarker 12/29/02 9:38:28 PM Reply	I tend to agree that Sun went off the rails re Java ... Self originally joined the Java Lobby board & fought tooth & nail against MS blatant attempts to carry out Bill's stated strategy of "cut off their air supply". In time there was a growing concern that Sun thought they had the means to take control of the Java/Desktop - IBM had stepped in in 1995/6 and done a comprehensive deal with Sun that allowed IBM to use Java with zero license fee if IBM contributed large portions of technology & effort to boost Java as a viable Internet technology. IBM contributed more than 50% of Java - the Internationalization, serialization, Enterprise Java Beans - a massive infusion. Part of the understanding with Sun was that Java would then be handed over to a standards committee - once Java had taken hold, Sun backed out & then tried to force IBM to take a license for a 'new' Java Java2 (with Swing) but IBM had a good set of lawyers who stood up to Sun on the use of core Java & Sun backed down. But IBM was did drop the Sun proprietary Swing GUI widgets in favour of a competing set. IBM then played out a counter strategy that was largely responsible for kicking the feet out from under Sun (Sun's shares are now at a multi-year low). That strategy (also amied at Microsoft) was for IBM to back Linux & to put its money where its mouth is by implementing Linux accross all platforms & fully promoting it as well as porting all key IBM software to Linux. Sales of Solaris slumped & are unlikely to recover. Sun got painted into a corner & is struggling to find a way out. Anyway - self was a big Sun supporter up until they 'weakened' Java with their antics. Actually wrote several Java articles for them (some still on their website). Despite what has happened I fully applaud the judges decision & hope it is made to stick. Cheers Doug Marker
Post #71,494 by mmoffitt 12/30/02 11:16:49 AM Reply	Don't look for it to stick. M$ has the money, and the time to tie this up in the courts until they find friendlies on the bench. And by then it'll be too late, ... again. God, I hate this industry. bcnu, Mikem who is still cursing the day he ever thought computers were "neat".
Post #71,923 by Ashton 1/1/03 8:55:39 PM Reply	..that $%^&__ Adam Osborne__:(

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