Post #61,490
11/6/02 7:15:00 PM
11/7/02 8:44:58 PM
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do you know a fucking thing about alaska? fix glaring error
2 thousand acres is less imprint on the Arctic naval oil preserve than Disneys parking lot is on the entire state of florida and can replace 25%of our oil that we produce at the same time push for efficiencies in other areas to further reduce imported oil. Typical demo crap. I have walked that land, worked on it and ate off of it. When was the last time you were there?
I said conservative judges not right wing idealogues. Judges who think the constitution is the law, not what their personal political and moral beleifs are.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Money for jobs? No first you get the job, then you get the money" Raimondo
Edited by boxley
Nov. 7, 2002, 08:44:58 PM EST
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Post #61,546
11/6/02 10:55:36 PM
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I think you mean "liberal" judges.
I said conservative judges not right wing idealogues. Judges who think the constitution is the law, not what their personal political and moral beleifs are. Like the liberal judges who said that you could vote no matter what colour your skin was. Damn. "Liberal" and "Conservative" and "Republican" and "Democrat" and "Right" and "Left" just don't MEAN anything anymore.
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Post #61,551
11/6/02 11:45:58 PM
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no like the conservative judges
Like the liberal judges who said that you could vote no matter what colour your skin was. no they were conservaive judges who read the constitution, the magna carta and could dicern what the meaning of equal was. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Money for jobs? No first you get the job, then you get the money" Raimondo
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Post #61,631
11/7/02 11:31:26 AM
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But.....
Would that mean that the judges who opposed such equality were "Liberal"?
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Post #61,703
11/7/02 4:46:50 PM
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a judge which ignores the constitution to adjudicate
on personal preference Like eithe the New Jersey Supreme Court or the ones who adjudicated against Brown vs Education are liberal.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
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Post #61,741
11/7/02 7:49:36 PM
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Damn. I'm Conservative and I didn't know it.
I guess that's the problem with inadequately defined phrases.
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Post #61,749
11/7/02 8:40:31 PM
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I always thought you were conservative
equal rights
a declaration of war before starting one
those are 2 things that come to mind.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
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Post #61,657
11/7/02 12:53:39 PM
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25%?!? Surely you jest!
Considering the "administrtion"'s own analysts state that, at its maximum possible output, it would only supply less that 2% of our daily consumption for something like 12-15 years. I have walked that land, worked on it and ate off of it. I'm happy for you. Since you seem to like it (the land, not necessarily the politicos that indwell it), it would seem to me you'd rather preserve it, as opposed to preserving your UAV, or Halliburton's profit margin. jb4
"About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt axe. It is equally vain to try to do it with ten blunt axes instead. "
-- Edsger W.Dijkstra (1930 - 2002)
(I wish more managers knew that...)
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Post #61,704
11/7/02 4:47:57 PM
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instead of bleating yer ecocrap do a little research
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
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Post #61,713
11/7/02 5:25:33 PM
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here is another estimate
Estimates from the U.S. Energy Information Administration put the volume of recoverable oil in the development area in the range of 5/7 billion to 15.9 billion barrels. That compares with reserves of 4.9 billion barrels elsewhere on Alaska's north slope, which pumps nearly 20 percent of the country's output. currently 20% of US output is from already pumping wells in AK from twice to 4 times reserves under ANWAR and only one hundred miles from existing processing facilities. Add the 2 together 25% easy. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
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Post #61,716
11/7/02 5:37:24 PM
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could replace saudi oil for the next 30 years
[link|http://www.amo-union.org/Newspaper/Morgue/5-2001/Sections/News/wildlifedrilling.htm|http://www.amo-union...dlifedrilling.htm] "At the high end, it could replace all the oil we import from Saudi Arabia for the next 30 years. At the low end, it would still be the second-largest oil field ever discovered in North America--the first being Prudhoe Bay."
Before drilling began at Prudhoe Bay 30 years ago, reserves there were estimated at between 8 billion and 10 billion barrels, but the field now accounts for up to 25 percent of U.S. oil output. Prudhoe Bay "is rapidly approaching 13 billion barrels of oil and is still not dry," Sen. Murkowski noted. If the top end is good why not abandon the arabian peninsula in favor of US and Latin American Oil? Let Iraq have the fsckers. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
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Post #61,719
11/7/02 5:44:12 PM
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and to replace the squirrel cupcake news you will be quoting
[link|http://www.pushhamburger.com/hidden.htm|http://www.pushhamburger.com/hidden.htm] Natural gas is readily available; Prud hoe Bay has 48 747-jet engines pumping one billion cubic feet of natural gas back into the ground 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. They have nowhere else to put the natural gas. and the clincher as believable as that tripe you call facts "All of our energy problems could have been solved in the '70s with the huge discovery of oil under Gull Island, Prudhoe Bay, Alaska," Williams said. "There is more pure grade oil there than in all of Sau di Arabia. Gull Island contains as much oil and natural gas as Americans could use in 200 years."
Oddly though, immediately after this massive discovery, the federal government ordered the rigs to be capped and oil production shut down. done with the edification of chicken little thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
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Post #61,727
11/7/02 6:38:35 PM
11/7/02 6:46:29 PM
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Special interest pap....Next?
But for the sake of discussion, let's assume that maybe there is a nugget of two of actual fact there.
So fscking what?
You can cut down consumption or foreign oil the same amount (more or less; I admit I don't have exact number here...and neither do you) by simply converting to fuel cell-based autos. Shit, even converting to a infinitely variable transmission in autos will perform a similar trick, as will traction motor cars/trucks.
Alternatives, Bill, alternatives. Think, man. Its so much easier to think, dream, plan, experiment (gad, that implies R&D, the anathema of Repos), than to defile.
But that's so damn...inconvenient!
And it's bad for Bizniz (as it is currently practiced of course, but not for the visionaries who actually solve the problem. But, of course, those who actually solve the problem will not be the same people who created it, nor will they be the same people who beileve they will continue to profit from maintaining the status quo).
jb4
"About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt axe. It is equally vain to try to do it with ten blunt axes instead. "
-- Edsger W.Dijkstra (1930 - 2002)
(I wish more managers knew that...)
Edited by jb4
Nov. 7, 2002, 06:46:29 PM EST
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Post #61,750
11/7/02 8:43:57 PM
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so dead kids for iraqi oil is less important than the
caribou? that is special intest clap trap. Until those efforts to conserve are made we need the oil and we can go get it from under other countries or use our own. Obviously you prefer to deal with the saudis. Fine. We could be self sufficient in energy consumption by nuclear means as well as all the other suggestions but a lot of folk wont listen to that either.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
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Post #61,754
11/7/02 8:59:06 PM
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Caribou are doing just fine, thank you very much!
[link|http://www.northernterritories.com/News%20Special%20Page.htm|In Comeback, Caribou Cross Yukon River Into Canada.] Yep, invading Canada to get more room. The Greater Land of Caribou, if you will. :)
Alex
"I have a truly marvelous demonstration of this proposition which this margin is too narrow to contain. -- Pierre de Fermat (1601-1665)
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Post #61,785
11/7/02 11:49:20 PM
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shoulda built a pipeline there, returns wooda been faster :)
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
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Post #61,898
11/8/02 3:08:03 PM
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You been taking Marlowe red herring creation lessons?
so dead kids for iraqi oil is less important than the caribou? that is special intest clap trap. It's also a red herring. I never stated that that was the choice. In fact, the alternative I stated would obviate the need to destroy either! Stay away from Marlowe, he'll rot your brain.... jb4
"About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt axe. It is equally vain to try to do it with ten blunt axes instead. "
-- Edsger W.Dijkstra (1930 - 2002)
(I wish more managers knew that...)
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Post #62,143
11/11/02 12:54:48 AM
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so throw marlowe's name out huh Godwin declared
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
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Post #62,217
11/11/02 1:21:40 PM
11/11/02 1:22:51 PM
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Now just you waidaminnit...
Have we expanded Godwin on these fora? (Not that that's necessarily a bad idea...)
Mebbe we should invoke zGodwin (or weeGodwin?)...
jb4
"About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt axe. It is equally vain to try to do it with ten blunt axes instead. "
-- Edsger W.Dijkstra (1930 - 2002)
(I wish more managers knew that...)
Edited by jb4
Nov. 11, 2002, 01:22:51 PM EST
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Post #62,277
11/11/02 5:29:40 PM
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Anti-Godwin for false-Godwins?____Gawd.. no Win
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Post #61,723
11/7/02 6:05:54 PM
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Our production and our consumption are different.
You originally said that ANWAR could supply 25% of our consumption needs. The numbers you cite later are on production.
AFAIK, US production has been falling for the last several years, while consumption has been steady or rising.
I'm not saying either of you are wrong, just that your cites aren't (yet) supporting your initial claim [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=61490|here] (post 61490).
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #61,726
11/7/02 6:37:27 PM
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Who the fsck is "the U.S. Energy Information Administration"
Give me real sources, Bill, not some special interest "Think tank".
Now if those numbers had come from the US Department of Energy, they might carry some weight...
jb4
"About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt axe. It is equally vain to try to do it with ten blunt axes instead. "
-- Edsger W.Dijkstra (1930 - 2002)
(I wish more managers knew that...)
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Post #61,751
11/7/02 8:48:14 PM
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US fscking government is the special interest think tank
ecothink got yer brain? :-o got ya thats why I didnt link
[link|http://www.eia.doe.gov/|http://www.eia.doe.gov/]
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
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Post #61,724
11/7/02 6:14:07 PM
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A point that many seem to miss on conservation
Preserving land is much easier to advocate when you don't live there.
If you live there then by living and breathing and going to the bathroom you pollute it. In rural areas many of the things that might possibly make you money also cause damage to the environment around you. Whether that is farming, logging, ranching, or even showing tourists around. Love the land as much as you probably do, you ain't going to survive there without putting stress on it.
Any time we decide that non-economic values outweight economic goals, someone pays economically. Typically a lot of those someones are local to the preserved area, leading to their not being very supportive. This does not mean that preservation is automatically not worthwhile. But the point of view of locals should be respected.
Cheers,
Ben
"Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly."
- [link|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html|Walter Mead]
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Post #61,730
11/7/02 6:54:14 PM
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A good point, Ben.
However, my point is that we haven't even begun to explore the alternatives to "stressing the land".
Indeed, we seem hell-bent on ignoring the alternatives. Why? Because to do otherwise would be "bad for Business". Working toward making alternative energy supplies practical in the real world would require investment, and investment against the status quo, for that matter. This scares the living snot out of our current crop of 1-percenter capatalists. Shit, if one were to do that, they might have to project a loss (or worse, no growth) for longer than a quarter or two, and...well, that just wouldn't sit well with the coke-snorting, beemer-driving, self-important, never-done-an-honest-day's-work Wall street bottom-dwellers, now would it?
(Those clowns could fuck up a wet dream...)
jb4
"About the use of language: it is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt axe. It is equally vain to try to do it with ten blunt axes instead. "
-- Edsger W.Dijkstra (1930 - 2002)
(I wish more managers knew that...)
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Post #61,752
11/7/02 8:52:45 PM
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What do you think the capital investment would be to open
ANWR? Lots. boucoup lots BP and others are willing to risk it. Now as far as the ;and goes to you even comprehend how little 2000 acres is as compared to the state of North Carolina? that is how much land would be used. The rest is available with no "forseable" downside for the fauna of the area. why is the use of that tiny intsy bit of land an anethema to you?
thanx
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
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Post #61,757
11/7/02 9:07:36 PM
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2000 acres is just over 3 square miles. More like pi.
I imagine the roads to the area will take up more acreage.
Alex
"I have a truly marvelous demonstration of this proposition which this margin is too narrow to contain. -- Pierre de Fermat (1601-1665)
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Post #61,786
11/7/02 11:52:03 PM
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what roads :-)
after freezup in sept and over snow which is the only way ther would build any roads.
nope another misconception bites the dust.
you saw the pipeline on your trip right?
the roads would be winter ice roads, no dev during the summer. No damage,
thanx
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
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Post #61,794
11/8/02 1:08:48 AM
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Yep, saw and placed hands on the Alyeska Pipeline...
[link|http://www.alyeska-pipe.com/pipelinefacts.html|near Fairbanks] 3 days after 9/11. Frankly I was surprised that I could do that.
Alex
"I have a truly marvelous demonstration of this proposition which this margin is too narrow to contain. -- Pierre de Fermat (1601-1665)
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Post #62,144
11/11/02 12:58:23 AM
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lets do a math pop quiz
if Alaska currently supplies 25% of US current production.
And ANWR could supply 20% of US current production.
And we import(meaning we dont produce it here) 56% of our oil
how the fuck do you get 2%????????????????????????????????????
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
"Fifty-one percent of a nation can establish a totalitarian regime, suppress minorities and still remain democratic." Correction: All that can be achieved with 51 percent of the voters!" Ilanna Mercer
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