Post #54,225
10/1/02 9:39:13 AM
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Fine, bad example
I wasn't sure I had ever seen you address an unsupported video card, but it seemed the type of thing you would have addressed. Since you don't like that one, I'll take one from [link|http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/#winmodem|own page]. That's an awful lot of work to explain how or why someone can or can't use a winmodem. Shouldn't you have just said, "Buy Windows"? After all, that's your answer for me: just buy something that does what I want.
To clarify, I'm not saying that your suggestion to me was in any way inaccurate. What I'm saying is that there are people working to make windmodems function under Linux. You helpfully point them out for anyone who asks. But when someone mentions fonts your only suggestion is to go buy some. (Or make them or commission them, of course.) There are free fonts available, but you didn't point any of them out. The difference in your responses appears to indicate that you are less concerned with font support than with modem support. If you don't care about font support, then maybe you shouldn't bother contributing to discussions about font support.
===
Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #54,333
10/1/02 1:21:51 PM
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You have no idea how bad an example
There are free fonts available, but you didn't point any of them out.In the first place, I was taking as given Andrew's sermon: Personally, I think the Linux community should be developing fonts rather than depending on Microsoft's. Unfortunately, it's tedious work that brings little fame in the kernel hacker community, so it's not being done (to my knowledge). The biggest shortcomings of Linux are:
- Software installation (a real zoo)
- Fonts
- Printing.
For the most part, "the community" is saying, "Everything's just fine, no problem, nothing to do" on these issues.
Users went from DOS to Windows primarily for font handling and consistent printing, not for any other reason, yet Linux still trails very badly on these features, and even worse on software installation. it isn't going to be worth beans on the desktop until these issues are resolved. Now, I tend to mostly tune out when I hear the words "Personally, I think the Linux community should...", since what follows is almost always empty rhetoric about how the rest of the world should solve the speaker's perceived problems. In this case, I happen to be aware of a recent study of freely distributable typefaces by a Debian developer incidental to a discussion on the debian-legal mailing list. It turns out that depressingly few of the typefaces commonly distributed in Linux distributions are lawful. The vast majority are proprietary fonts distributed without any particular grant of permission from the copyright holders, who fortunately so far have not seen fit to sue for copyright violation. For that reason and also passing acquaintance with a couple of dozen past and present Linux distributions, I call bullshit on your implicit assumption that there are lawfully available free-of-charge typefaces floating around somewhere in the memesphere that have somehow been negligently omitted from Linux distributions by arrogant computer geeks who don't care how anything looks. If anything, Linux distributions' typeface collection -- including Debian's -- have been pretty much uniformly overinclusive and legally risky. Which basically means that, as I said, someone who doesn't like the (supposedly) freely distributable typefaces at hand may (1) buy more, (2) make more, or (3) pay to have more made. In light of which, I note the particular irony of Andrew (and you) claiming "the Linux community" is saying merely "Everything's just fine, no problem, nothing to do", when in fact I've succinctly listed all possible remedies. Twice, now. Now, if you're quite done with the ignorant impugning of my and other people's motives, I think I have a lint collection to sort.
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #54,344
10/1/02 3:22:16 PM
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Re: You have no idea how bad an example
For that reason and also passing acquaintance with a couple of dozen past and present Linux distributions, I call bullshit on your implicit assumption that there are lawfully available free-of-charge typefaces floating around somewhere in the memesphere that have somehow been negligently omitted from Linux distributions by arrogant computer geeks who don't care how anything looks. Stunning logic. Most distributions are shipped with non-legal fonts. Therefore there are no legal fonts that can be shipped. Try [link|http://www.google.com/search?q=free+fonts+gpl|this]. Of course GPL [link|http://www.xfree86.org/pipermail/fonts/2001-October/000931.html|might not be] the way to go for fonts, so maybe you'd prefer the ones available under a [link|http://www.google.com/search?q=free+fonts|standard freeware license]. (Hey look, I can reference newsgroups, too!) And now I call bullshit on your stated assumption that I blame "arrogant computer geeks who don't care how anything looks" for the lack of legal fonts in current distributions. I'm specifically calling you an arrogant copmputer geek. And while I don't make any assumptions about whether you care how things look, I have reached the conclusion that you are less concerned with fonts than with other issues you deign to address. On the winmodem issue, you could just as easily have enumerated the options, "Buy a real modem or buy Windows," and left it there. But you went further to explain why this was the case, and pointed to projects underway to provide a third alternative. With fonts, "buy them, make them or commission them" is not a comprehensive list of options. There is also, "Find someone with the ability to create them, and convince them that doing so would be a benefit to the Free Software community." You have apparently not been convinced, though the existence of several projects to address this issue indicates others have been. ===
Microsoft offers them the one thing most business people will pay any price for - the ability to say "we had no choice - everyone's doing it that way." -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=38978|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #54,955
10/4/02 8:05:25 PM
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And so we wave a fond farewell
Stunning logic.
Indeed. And I note that you have declined to cite any examples whatsoever of high-quality, freely redistributable fonts carelessly omitted from Linux distributions. Because, you see, my trolling little friend, they aren't there: Assemblers of Linux distributions of my acquaintance do look high and low for such things, and include what's available.
(I note your non-sequitur GPL fixation without comment. Ditto the ongoing, unsuccessful attempt to personalise a technical discussion.)
And now, having made my point twice, I invoke Khendon's Law. Have fun.
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #54,956
10/4/02 8:17:55 PM
10/4/02 10:47:06 PM
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Re: And so we wave a fond farewell
-drl
Edited by deSitter
Oct. 4, 2002, 10:47:06 PM EDT
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Post #55,031
10/5/02 3:00:58 AM
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He rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, didn't he?
"Ah. One of the difficult questions."
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Post #55,034
10/5/02 3:41:14 AM
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Perspiring minds want to know:
He rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, didn't he?
Purely in the name of science: Would that be the "way" that spontaneously produces emotional tantrums and non-sequitur personal attacks from several posters -- or is that response reflexive in them, regardless of the rubbing vector?
If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
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Post #55,050
10/5/02 10:32:19 AM
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Naw... He's just jealous
Jealous of your color of your locks of hair and your joyful personality... People around here are just overly sensitive... and forget the disclaimer. Here is the snippet from the zIWETHEY disclaimer: More than likely, z.iwethey.org ("Z" from this point forward) will contain material that is sensitive, vulgar and offensive to someone who has nothing better to do... other than to be over-sensitive, upset and offended.
"Z" is for entertainment purposes only... mostly the it's core users... but still, it's for fun. We do not actively pursue nor advocate mud-slinging, name-calling or the teasing and fun-making of the "mistakes" of others, as our vocations. We choose do it on our free time. "Z" should not be taken seriously, but, if you are browsing "Z", and someone thinks you are pretty much a "DOLT" or <insert favorite disparaging remark>, you may want to plead your case to the others... or Bryce<tablizer> please seek professional help.
Please include a clear and concise explanation supporting your case, with supporting links and documentation. All flames will be routed to /dev/null and ignored unless, however, we derive amusement from it and choose to add to it, at your expense.
We, here at "Z", strive for excellence in presentation. We may or may not be going to hell, but, if that's our fate, we will be on our way to the gates, knowing we somehow smoked you. The material presented in this site and its intended purpose are obvious... hence its name. If you are coming here, you are aware of the intention and point of its content. If you don't know what IWETHEY stands for, well then, to bad, you came here of your own valition. So as you can see, it is clearly covered. It even covers Bryce by name...
greg - Grand-Master Artist in IT,
curley95@attbi.com -- [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!]
Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds:
Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or
Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.
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Post #55,236
10/7/02 7:22:44 AM
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Do you really not know? I'm surprised.
"Ah. One of the difficult questions."
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Post #55,063
10/5/02 1:10:13 PM
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Squeek doesnt bother me and sometimes even adds
something useful to the conversation around here.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
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